Old Dutch hanger

cornelistromp · 12th May 2023, 11:45 AM

it took a while, but finally found it in the Rijksmuseum in Holland

this has been incorrectly dated by the Rijksmuseum between 1500 and 1625, I am almost certain that the date must be around 1650 and that a silver cast example as depicted in the Rotius paintings served as an example.

best, Jasper

M ELEY · 13th May 2023, 02:41 AM

Wow, Jasper! That's an awesome cousin to mine (better quality than mine, too!). Interestingly, it has the same cruciform stamped pattern on the blade as mine. I found this marking on ancient Ceylon coins from the 400-500 AD period, which I know seems to have no connection until you remember these swords popped up during the Anglo Dutch Wars of the 1650-80 period directly in that region, the lion of the hilt, although Dutch resembles the 'standing lion' of Ceylon and many of these sword types made with tropical wood hilts from the region. Also, the 4-dot pattern also found on Dutch 'dump' coins of the mid-1700's. I've asked before, but can't remember if there was an opinion of if this stamping has any connection to the VOC?

There is another Forum member who has an example as nice as the Rijksmuseum piece above! I'm not sure if they want to post it here or not, though, so we'll see!

M ELEY · 23rd May 2023, 01:03 AM

Jasper, I forgot to thank you sincerely for finding the example of this sword in the Rijksmuseum collection. I know it took you a lot of work to track it down!

I am contemplating perhaps removing the old red primer/paint/stain on this old blade. I originally left it in place thinking that perhaps it was original to the piece to act as a retardant to rusting (i.e.japanning), which is seen on some naval swords. Now that I think the stain/primer was put on later, I think I might remove it to see the blade in its originality. Unfortunately, someone sharpened the edge in modern times (to a shiny steel surface

) and I just added a little brown pain to the edge to cover it. If I clean it up, the resharpening will show. So...opinions as to if I should remove the brown primer? Also, suggestions of what solvent to use that won't hurt the blade? Thanks in advance!
Mark

12th May 2023, 11:45 AM	#1
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,057	it took a while, but finally found it in the Rijksmuseum in Holland this has been incorrectly dated by the Rijksmuseum between 1500 and 1625, I am almost certain that the date must be around 1650 and that a silver cast example as depicted in the Rotius paintings served as an example. best, Jasper Attached Images

23rd May 2023, 01:03 AM	#3
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,076	Jasper, I forgot to thank you sincerely for finding the example of this sword in the Rijksmuseum collection. I know it took you a lot of work to track it down! I am contemplating perhaps removing the old red primer/paint/stain on this old blade. I originally left it in place thinking that perhaps it was original to the piece to act as a retardant to rusting (i.e.japanning), which is seen on some naval swords. Now that I think the stain/primer was put on later, I think I might remove it to see the blade in its originality. Unfortunately, someone sharpened the edge in modern times (to a shiny steel surface) and I just added a little brown pain to the edge to cover it. If I clean it up, the resharpening will show. So...opinions as to if I should remove the brown primer? Also, suggestions of what solvent to use that won't hurt the blade? Thanks in advance! Mark

13th May 2023, 02:41 AM	#2
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,076	Wow, Jasper! That's an awesome cousin to mine (better quality than mine, too!). Interestingly, it has the same cruciform stamped pattern on the blade as mine. I found this marking on ancient Ceylon coins from the 400-500 AD period, which I know seems to have no connection until you remember these swords popped up during the Anglo Dutch Wars of the 1650-80 period directly in that region, the lion of the hilt, although Dutch resembles the 'standing lion' of Ceylon and many of these sword types made with tropical wood hilts from the region. Also, the 4-dot pattern also found on Dutch 'dump' coins of the mid-1700's. I've asked before, but can't remember if there was an opinion of if this stamping has any connection to the VOC? There is another Forum member who has an example as nice as the Rijksmuseum piece above! I'm not sure if they want to post it here or not, though, so we'll see!