Some other miniature stuff

knife7knut · 16th April 2005, 12:27 AM

Thought the folks on the forum here might enjoy this piece.I bought it about 25 years ago at a flea market for about $3.Probably a tourist thing but it caught my eye and was an education in itself.The board is thin plywood(3/16ths of an inch(4.5mm) maybe)and the knife blades are crafted of aluminum(some have engraving on them)and the handles are wood as is the bow and arrows.The shield is aluminum.Under each knife is what it's name is.I had acquired some P.I. knives at the time and it helped me ID them.Enjoy.
Cheers
Ray

Rick · 16th April 2005, 12:38 AM

Hi Ray , these plaques have been manufactured since the early 20th c.
Here are some examples from a plaque made in 1910-20 or so .

tom hyle · 16th April 2005, 03:12 AM

Particularly nice ones, Rick. Thanks.

knife7knut · 16th April 2005, 04:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Hi Ray , these plaques have been manufactured since the early 20th c.
Here are some examples from a plaque made in 1910-20 or so .

Rick:
Those pieces are exquisite!How big are they?Miniature pieces(knives especially)fascinate me.I have a small collection of miniature folding knives with pearl and tortiseshell scales that were manufactured in Germany around 1910 or so.One of the smallest is a two bladed jack that the small blade is but 1/2" long and these are fully functioning knives.I'm enclosing a couple of pictures;I hope they're not too far off topic.
Ray

Michel · 17th April 2005, 06:23 PM

Found these on a flea market, in a bunch, packaged in a tissue.
Had to refurbish a few handles and make a presentation board.
This is the result.
A few of the blade have a vague inscription, like Rick's ones.
If Rick's ones are from around 1910, I guess mine must be about the same age ?
Any help to name each weapon will be welcome. Thanks
Michel

Rick · 17th April 2005, 07:52 PM

Hi guys , my largest examples are 5.75" or so .
The handles are bone , the blades steel shaped on one side only .
I replaced the pommel ferrule on the bolo with a bit of silver ( it has tarnished in quite nicely).
The names on my examples are (from top to bottom)
Lug Log
Bolo
kiya
Naraui
Balacion

nosmo king · 17th April 2005, 09:00 PM

Hello all,Great "mini" stuff !!! I bought this shadow box display from a wwII vet stationed in the PI . It was made by the natives on Palawan to sell to the Japanese soldiers!!! Notice the painting of the Geisha!!! When we displaced the japanese,the US soldiers bought them up!!!Funny how fast one's customers can change

Anyway,the quality of these knives is excellant!!! Looks and feels like high chromium steel.Where they got this material from on Palawan is a mystery to me.

Any ideas?

Andrew · 17th April 2005, 10:23 PM

Predictably, these aren't PI stuff, but miniature dha. These have been a puzzle to me since I obtained them through a trade with another forum member some time ago.

Overall length approximately 7". Good blades, inlaid with silver koftgari work of high quality. Fittings high-content silver and copper twisted/braided wire work. Burmese.

Any thoughts?

nosmo king · 17th April 2005, 11:41 PM

Hello Andrew,Beautiful Dha!! These tiny works of art were status symbols of the wealthy Burmese.I guess they tried to outdo eachother in a way like the Russians did with their miniature firearms and edged weapons.In this case,smaller is better!!!I enclosed a few pics of a Dha in my collection.It is 6" long with a 3 1/2 " blade.Nicely forged blade(very sharp) and all high grade silver---Melted french coins probably!!!

The workmanship is amazing considering how tiny this piece is.
Regards,Nosmo

tom hyle · 18th April 2005, 12:07 AM

I would not imagine these small dha cross in to the realm of true miniatures; they are smaller than knife dhas I've seen, but not tremendously so, and about the size of my puuko that I carve wood with; a pretty handy size for a knife. My rambling point is I think they're for fairly ordinary use/wear. Would women wear a dha? Probably not, but instead would wear some sort of woman's knife? Just a guess there; input? Nice li'l dhas.

nosmo king · 18th April 2005, 02:43 AM

Not much smaller!!

Here's a better perspective:

Andrew · 18th April 2005, 02:55 AM

Great knives, Nosmo, thanks for sharing.

Tom, I don't disagree that most small dha are probably not "miniatures" in the same sense as the Filipino examples on this thread. However, most of the very small dha are probably a form of "prayer knife", particularly those from Thailand, where I understand it is common to have them blessed at Buddhist temples (Dan, are you out there to comment on this?). Some of those are quite small, and intended to be carried on or about the person. Nosmo's small knife may be of that type.

The two I posted are, I believe, truly miniatures. I showed them to Ian last year at Timonium, and we both speculated they were either a sort of "salesman" sample similar to the miniature safes carried by salesmen in the 19th and early 20th century, or perhaps (given the high level of workmanship), demonstration of the maker's skill.

JPSF · 21st April 2005, 03:35 AM

Even kukris...one of many, but this is my favorite

Conogre · 21st April 2005, 07:48 AM

While it may not apply in this case, some of the weapons of this size, in several cultures, were used by women as personal protection weapons, some made to be concealed in feminine clothing and others made so that they could be displayed, jewelery-like.
I've heard it mentioned that some of these were intended to be used, but not as a "weapon" in the traditional sense, but rather on themselves if they were dishonored, particularly in some Muslim regions where it was expected of rape victims.
Mike

tom hyle · 21st April 2005, 12:39 PM

Ideally, not so much if they're dishonored as before they're dishonored or made to suffer, a concept, BTW, that's very common and often enough unquestioned in "Western" writing about European/Eurocolonial culture until sometime after the middle of the 20th century.

knife7knut · 22nd April 2005, 01:36 AM

This knife I had submitted pictures of to Rich Stein.I had purchsed it quite a few years ago for a few dollars and thought at first it was a letter opener(which I was collecting at the time).
Upon closer examination,I realized that if it was a letteropener,it was a very well-made example.The handle is pinned to the blade with a tiny ivory pin(which is removeable but the blade won't release from the handle and I don't want to force it),the blade shows evidence of layering and is signed.
I was told it was a Kwaiken and a pretty nice example.I am enclosing a few pictures of it for your viewing.
Cheers
Ray

tom hyle · 1st May 2005, 01:53 PM

A miniature pikebreaking sword; dagger size, or maybe shortsword (yes, I do forget which

) looks like cast iron; closed ebay auction #7316213487.

16th April 2005, 12:27 AM	#1
knife7knut Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 31	Some other miniature stuff Thought the folks on the forum here might enjoy this piece.I bought it about 25 years ago at a flea market for about $3.Probably a tourist thing but it caught my eye and was an education in itself.The board is thin plywood(3/16ths of an inch(4.5mm) maybe)and the knife blades are crafted of aluminum(some have engraving on them)and the handles are wood as is the bow and arrows.The shield is aluminum.Under each knife is what it's name is.I had acquired some P.I. knives at the time and it helped me ID them.Enjoy. Cheers Ray Attached Images

16th April 2005, 12:38 AM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Hi Ray , these plaques have been manufactured since the early 20th c. Here are some examples from a plaque made in 1910-20 or so . Attached Images

17th April 2005, 06:23 PM	#5
Michel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Switzerland Posts: 139	Found these on a flea market, in a bunch, packaged in a tissue. Had to refurbish a few handles and make a presentation board. This is the result. A few of the blade have a vague inscription, like Rick's ones. If Rick's ones are from around 1910, I guess mine must be about the same age ? Any help to name each weapon will be welcome. Thanks Michel Attached Images

17th April 2005, 07:52 PM	#6
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Hi guys , my largest examples are 5.75" or so . The handles are bone , the blades steel shaped on one side only . I replaced the pommel ferrule on the bolo with a bit of silver ( it has tarnished in quite nicely). The names on my examples are (from top to bottom) Lug Log Bolo kiya Naraui Balacion Attached Images Last edited by Rick; 17th April 2005 at 08:31 PM.

17th April 2005, 11:41 PM	#9
nosmo king Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 15	Hello Andrew,Beautiful Dha!! These tiny works of art were status symbols of the wealthy Burmese.I guess they tried to outdo eachother in a way like the Russians did with their miniature firearms and edged weapons.In this case,smaller is better!!!I enclosed a few pics of a Dha in my collection.It is 6" long with a 3 1/2 " blade.Nicely forged blade(very sharp) and all high grade silver---Melted french coins probably!!! The workmanship is amazing considering how tiny this piece is. Regards,Nosmo Attached Images

16th April 2005, 03:12 AM	#3
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	Particularly nice ones, Rick. Thanks.

17th April 2005, 09:00 PM	#7
nosmo king Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 15	Hello all,Great "mini" stuff !!! I bought this shadow box display from a wwII vet stationed in the PI . It was made by the natives on Palawan to sell to the Japanese soldiers!!! Notice the painting of the Geisha!!! When we displaced the japanese,the US soldiers bought them up!!!Funny how fast one's customers can change Anyway,the quality of these knives is excellant!!! Looks and feels like high chromium steel.Where they got this material from on Palawan is a mystery to me. Any ideas? Attached Images

17th April 2005, 10:23 PM	#8
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	Predictably, these aren't PI stuff, but miniature dha. These have been a puzzle to me since I obtained them through a trade with another forum member some time ago. Overall length approximately 7". Good blades, inlaid with silver koftgari work of high quality. Fittings high-content silver and copper twisted/braided wire work. Burmese. Any thoughts?

18th April 2005, 12:07 AM	#10
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	I would not imagine these small dha cross in to the realm of true miniatures; they are smaller than knife dhas I've seen, but not tremendously so, and about the size of my puuko that I carve wood with; a pretty handy size for a knife. My rambling point is I think they're for fairly ordinary use/wear. Would women wear a dha? Probably not, but instead would wear some sort of woman's knife? Just a guess there; input? Nice li'l dhas. Last edited by tom hyle; 18th April 2005 at 02:40 AM. Reason: clarifying

18th April 2005, 02:43 AM	#11
nosmo king Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 15	Not much smaller!! Here's a better perspective: Attached Images

18th April 2005, 02:55 AM	#12
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	Great knives, Nosmo, thanks for sharing. Tom, I don't disagree that most small dha are probably not "miniatures" in the same sense as the Filipino examples on this thread. However, most of the very small dha are probably a form of "prayer knife", particularly those from Thailand, where I understand it is common to have them blessed at Buddhist temples (Dan, are you out there to comment on this?). Some of those are quite small, and intended to be carried on or about the person. Nosmo's small knife may be of that type. The two I posted are, I believe, truly miniatures. I showed them to Ian last year at Timonium, and we both speculated they were either a sort of "salesman" sample similar to the miniature safes carried by salesmen in the 19th and early 20th century, or perhaps (given the high level of workmanship), demonstration of the maker's skill.

21st April 2005, 03:35 AM	#13
JPSF Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 56	Even kukris...one of many, but this is my favorite

21st April 2005, 07:48 AM	#14
Conogre Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Clearwater, Florida Posts: 371	While it may not apply in this case, some of the weapons of this size, in several cultures, were used by women as personal protection weapons, some made to be concealed in feminine clothing and others made so that they could be displayed, jewelery-like. I've heard it mentioned that some of these were intended to be used, but not as a "weapon" in the traditional sense, but rather on themselves if they were dishonored, particularly in some Muslim regions where it was expected of rape victims. Mike

21st April 2005, 12:39 PM	#15
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	Ideally, not so much if they're dishonored as before they're dishonored or made to suffer, a concept, BTW, that's very common and often enough unquestioned in "Western" writing about European/Eurocolonial culture until sometime after the middle of the 20th century.

22nd April 2005, 01:36 AM	#16
knife7knut Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 31	Another Miniature(?) This knife I had submitted pictures of to Rich Stein.I had purchsed it quite a few years ago for a few dollars and thought at first it was a letter opener(which I was collecting at the time). Upon closer examination,I realized that if it was a letteropener,it was a very well-made example.The handle is pinned to the blade with a tiny ivory pin(which is removeable but the blade won't release from the handle and I don't want to force it),the blade shows evidence of layering and is signed. I was told it was a Kwaiken and a pretty nice example.I am enclosing a few pictures of it for your viewing. Cheers Ray Attached Images

1st May 2005, 01:53 PM	#17
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	zwiehander A miniature pikebreaking sword; dagger size, or maybe shortsword (yes, I do forget which ) looks like cast iron; closed ebay auction #7316213487.