OTTOMAN NEWLY MADE SWORD????

ilias · 26th April 2015, 07:14 PM

HI EVERYONE,.
RECENTLY THIS SWORD WAS SOLD AT A REDICULOUS HIGH PRICE.
TO MY EYES THIS IS A FAKE ONE.NEWLY MADE KOFTGHARI WORK AND A NEW BLADE.
PLEASE SHARE YOUR OPINIONS.

BANDOOK · 27th April 2015, 05:58 AM

AGREE,LOOKS FAKE TO ME AND CONDITION IS AS IF IT WAS NEVER USED

Kubur · 27th April 2015, 08:38 AM

Yep and the central spine in the middle of the blade or the untouched gold goftari are more than suspicious...

ALEX · 27th April 2015, 10:28 AM

I agree with Ilias' and others. besides what's mentioned, the blade shows signs of "unnatural"aging.

ashoka · 27th April 2015, 11:43 AM

I do think the hilt and crossguard are possibly old. They have put the crossguard on upside down which is fairly ridiculous and then had to cut into the upper side of the guard to allow the blade to fit. It's hardly important in the context. Why fakers would use such a uniquely strange blade is fairly silly. The quality of the goldwork is slightly worrying though, it could almost be right apart from all the other mistakes

ALEX · 27th April 2015, 12:55 PM

Another good catch, Stefan
There are more "mistakes" that show retrofit. yes, the coftgari is good quality, but not ususual nor unseen before.

ilias · 27th April 2015, 02:33 PM

I agree with all of you.
The thing that worried me most is the kofghari work and espesially the very nice detail at the cartoush.At a better blade I agree with Stefan would be difficult to say that it is not old.
the handle looks like the one that used to have the Turkish officer swords end of 19th c. but with different crossguard.

ilias · 27th April 2015, 02:41 PM

This one also is a very nice faked example that it was sold recently at high price at a known Auction house.Possibly there is a lot of people doing this work(fakes) and very succesfully I must say.
The handle at this one looks right but the blade doesnt.

Ian · 27th April 2015, 06:06 PM

I would not be surprised if some of this work is coming out of Rajastan. There are blades in Indian styles coming from there that are obviously new but the gold koftgari is of high quality. Some of these knives and swords are presented on eBay as newly made, but many are not (or it is ambiguous when they were made). The fraudulent examples are getting better.

Ian.

ashoka · 27th April 2015, 07:03 PM

well - as no one else will bite the bullet on this one... To me this looks like an authentic hilt circa 1700 Hungarian-Ottoman, and the blade shape is also the right style for the hilt. The weird decoration to the top of the blade doesn't look right but this needs to be examined closely whether it is overlaid, inlaid, painted on with gold marker pen - incidentally a modern gilding 'technique' that is turning up more and more. The dragon heads are rather cartoon-like and I notice areas of the inside of the jaws are not tarnished as you would expect but maybe well cleaned. Tricky one, needs close examination however overall something is fishy. Without the dodgy looking goldwork to the blade I doubt this sword would be questioned.

26th April 2015, 07:14 PM	#1
ilias Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: GREECE Posts: 73	OTTOMAN NEWLY MADE SWORD???? HI EVERYONE,. RECENTLY THIS SWORD WAS SOLD AT A REDICULOUS HIGH PRICE. TO MY EYES THIS IS A FAKE ONE.NEWLY MADE KOFTGHARI WORK AND A NEW BLADE. PLEASE SHARE YOUR OPINIONS. Attached Images

27th April 2015, 11:43 AM	#5
ashoka Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 61	I do think the hilt and crossguard are possibly old. They have put the crossguard on upside down which is fairly ridiculous and then had to cut into the upper side of the guard to allow the blade to fit. It's hardly important in the context. Why fakers would use such a uniquely strange blade is fairly silly. The quality of the goldwork is slightly worrying though, it could almost be right apart from all the other mistakes Last edited by ashoka; 27th April 2015 at 11:59 AM.

27th April 2015, 02:41 PM	#8
ilias Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: GREECE Posts: 73	This one also is a very nice faked example that it was sold recently at high price at a known Auction house.Possibly there is a lot of people doing this work(fakes) and very succesfully I must say. The handle at this one looks right but the blade doesnt. Attached Images

27th April 2015, 07:03 PM	#10
ashoka Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 61	well - as no one else will bite the bullet on this one... To me this looks like an authentic hilt circa 1700 Hungarian-Ottoman, and the blade shape is also the right style for the hilt. The weird decoration to the top of the blade doesn't look right but this needs to be examined closely whether it is overlaid, inlaid, painted on with gold marker pen - incidentally a modern gilding 'technique' that is turning up more and more. The dragon heads are rather cartoon-like and I notice areas of the inside of the jaws are not tarnished as you would expect but maybe well cleaned. Tricky one, needs close examination however overall something is fishy. Without the dodgy looking goldwork to the blade I doubt this sword would be questioned. Last edited by ashoka; 27th April 2015 at 07:29 PM.

27th April 2015, 05:58 AM	#2
BANDOOK Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: AUCKLAND,NEW ZEALAND Posts: 624	AGREE,LOOKS FAKE TO ME AND CONDITION IS AS IF IT WAS NEVER USED

27th April 2015, 08:38 AM	#3
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	Yep and the central spine in the middle of the blade or the untouched gold goftari are more than suspicious...

27th April 2015, 10:28 AM	#4
ALEX Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 936	I agree with Ilias' and others. besides what's mentioned, the blade shows signs of "unnatural"aging.

27th April 2015, 12:55 PM	#6
ALEX Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 936	Another good catch, Stefan There are more "mistakes" that show retrofit. yes, the coftgari is good quality, but not ususual nor unseen before.

27th April 2015, 02:33 PM	#7
ilias Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: GREECE Posts: 73	I agree with all of you. The thing that worried me most is the kofghari work and espesially the very nice detail at the cartoush.At a better blade I agree with Stefan would be difficult to say that it is not old. the handle looks like the one that used to have the Turkish officer swords end of 19th c. but with different crossguard.

27th April 2015, 06:06 PM	#9
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,200	I would not be surprised if some of this work is coming out of Rajastan. There are blades in Indian styles coming from there that are obviously new but the gold koftgari is of high quality. Some of these knives and swords are presented on eBay as newly made, but many are not (or it is ambiguous when they were made). The fraudulent examples are getting better. Ian.