Does there exist a counterpart or predecessor of the Moro Panabas in Indonesia?

ashkenaz · 7th January 2018, 07:09 AM

Another amateur question, one that's been on my mind.

I noticed that almost every indigenous blade in the Philippines has a counterpart in Indonesia or Malaysia today, but with a notable exception, the Panabas.

Was the Panabas of the Moros based on a prototype blade constructed by Malays the same way the Kampilan was or what?

Thanks,

Sajen · 7th January 2018, 09:46 AM

Hello Ashkenaz,

not quite the same but similar weapons, see for example here:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=21969 &
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=21189 &
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=15614

Hope this was from some help!

Regards,
Detlef

Royston · 7th January 2018, 11:00 AM

Detlef

What about the Solor Stick sword ?

You have a post on this dated 13th March 2016

Cheers
Roy

Sajen · 7th January 2018, 11:05 AM

Hello Roy,

it's shown in the second link I've posted in up!

Best,
Detlef

kronckew · 7th January 2018, 12:24 PM

Thai Pra?:

Ian · 7th January 2018, 05:50 PM

This is a great question and one that I have pondered also. I think I read (perhaps in Cato) that the likely origin of the panabas was a shortened version of a pole arm, and I've worked off that assumption for some time. I don't have anything more specific to base that idea on. It has also been suggested that the panabas is derived from an agricultural tool (the tabas) still in use today--that begs the question, though, of how the tabas may have originated.

However, in looking at various options as a predecessor for the panabas, I must agree with Wayne that some examples of the Thai pra come close. Attached are pictures of a large version of the Thai pra (at least I am calling it a pra although it may go by another local name). This one is 38 inches in overall length and has a curved heavy blade (3/8 inch thick at the handle). The blade is simply wedged into the handle and secured with an iron ferrule, with no adhesive used, leaving the thickest part of the wedge exposed for a short distance--if the blade becomes loose, then pounding the end of the hilt on the ground drives the wedge further into the handle and tightens it up again (a convenient design feature IMHO). This is the same arrangement as on most of my panabas.

I don't believe that the Thai pra was necessarily a prototype for the panabas, but they may share a common ancestor.

Ian.

.

ashkenaz · 7th January 2018, 08:13 PM

I think you guys are right.

This "Thai Pra" blade design IS strikingly close to a Moro Panabas, it's nearly impossible that there is no link between them. I do find it interesting that every culture between the geographic distant of the Moros and the Thais don't have an axe/sword that are closely resembling either a Panabas or a Thai Pra however.

I personally prior believed that the Igorot "Binaroy" axe had a link with the Moro Panabas or at least the Tabas (agricultural version), was either the Panabas or at least Tabas common all throughout the Philippines at one point or no?

Thanks,

kronckew · 7th January 2018, 08:15 PM

Mine was sourced from someone who had used it for years to clear brush from his back yard in thailand, i was struck with it's similarity to a panabas, he also called it by another name i forget, but 'pra' is a generic term. Ibadgered him until he sold it to me.

We've posted these before: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=605

7th January 2018, 07:09 AM	#1
ashkenaz Member Join Date: Nov 2017 Posts: 23	Does there exist a counterpart or predecessor of the Moro Panabas in Indonesia? Another amateur question, one that's been on my mind. I noticed that almost every indigenous blade in the Philippines has a counterpart in Indonesia or Malaysia today, but with a notable exception, the Panabas. Was the Panabas of the Moros based on a prototype blade constructed by Malays the same way the Kampilan was or what? Thanks, Last edited by ashkenaz; 7th January 2018 at 08:05 PM.

7th January 2018, 12:24 PM	#5
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,182	Thai Pra?: Attached Images

7th January 2018, 05:50 PM	#6
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,197	This is a great question and one that I have pondered also. I think I read (perhaps in Cato) that the likely origin of the panabas was a shortened version of a pole arm, and I've worked off that assumption for some time. I don't have anything more specific to base that idea on. It has also been suggested that the panabas is derived from an agricultural tool (the tabas) still in use today--that begs the question, though, of how the tabas may have originated. However, in looking at various options as a predecessor for the panabas, I must agree with Wayne that some examples of the Thai pra come close. Attached are pictures of a large version of the Thai pra (at least I am calling it a pra although it may go by another local name). This one is 38 inches in overall length and has a curved heavy blade (3/8 inch thick at the handle). The blade is simply wedged into the handle and secured with an iron ferrule, with no adhesive used, leaving the thickest part of the wedge exposed for a short distance--if the blade becomes loose, then pounding the end of the hilt on the ground drives the wedge further into the handle and tightens it up again (a convenient design feature IMHO). This is the same arrangement as on most of my panabas. I don't believe that the Thai pra was necessarily a prototype for the panabas, but they may share a common ancestor. Ian. . Attached Images

7th January 2018, 09:46 AM	#2
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,770	Hello Ashkenaz, not quite the same but similar weapons, see for example here: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=21969 & http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=21189 & http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=15614 Hope this was from some help! Regards, Detlef

7th January 2018, 11:00 AM	#3
Royston Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Poole England Posts: 443	Detlef What about the Solor Stick sword ? You have a post on this dated 13th March 2016 Cheers Roy

7th January 2018, 11:05 AM	#4
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,770	Hello Roy, it's shown in the second link I've posted in up! Best, Detlef

7th January 2018, 08:13 PM	#7
ashkenaz Member Join Date: Nov 2017 Posts: 23	I think you guys are right. This "Thai Pra" blade design IS strikingly close to a Moro Panabas, it's nearly impossible that there is no link between them. I do find it interesting that every culture between the geographic distant of the Moros and the Thais don't have an axe/sword that are closely resembling either a Panabas or a Thai Pra however. I personally prior believed that the Igorot "Binaroy" axe had a link with the Moro Panabas or at least the Tabas (agricultural version), was either the Panabas or at least Tabas common all throughout the Philippines at one point or no? Thanks,

7th January 2018, 08:15 PM	#8
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,182	Mine was sourced from someone who had used it for years to clear brush from his back yard in thailand, i was struck with it's similarity to a panabas, he also called it by another name i forget, but 'pra' is a generic term. Ibadgered him until he sold it to me. We've posted these before: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=605