Turkish Officer's Sword

Cathey · 9th March 2020, 05:14 AM

Hi Guys

This sword belonged to a friend of mine who sadly passed away last year. I am assuming it is a Turkish Officers Sword buy it is completely out of my field so I am hoping someone may be abale to tell me more about it. My Fried had it listed as a Turkish General Sword with Ivory handle and steel scabbard. I think the grip might be bone or walrus ivory, rather than elephant ivory. It looks to me to be around circa late 1880’s.

The overall length in its Scabbard is 35 ¼” 89.6 cm, sword only is 34 1/8” 86.7 cm, and the blade is 28 ¼” 71.8 cm long.

Cheers Cathey and Rex

ariel · 9th March 2020, 07:18 AM

It is a European variant of the so-called “ Mameluke sword”. They appeared after the Egypt campaign of Napoleon and became very popular. The idea that it belonged to a Turkish officer likely stems from the impression that the blade carries genuine” Islamic” inscriptions. However, they are just a meaningless array of curved lines, an imitation of the Islamic script. Such a decoration was often seen on European blades, especially on the Hungarian ones. However, they do not provide a clue to accurate attribution. The blade may be ( not certain) made of mechanical Damascus ( pattern welding), but polishing, etching and better pics are needed to be certain.

Furthermore, European swords, unlike Oriental ones, almost always had steel scabbards. That was good from the point of view of longevity, but bad because they dulled the edge. Metal plate covering upper side of the handle and the pommel is also a typical European feature.

I cannot be sure about the organic material of the handle, but cannot see anything pointing out to elephant or walrus ivory. The upper part of the organic part has multiple slightly elongated black components. If real, they would suggest just long bone ( bovine as a rule): remnants of blood capillaries on the surface, the periosteum. If there are different pics, they may prove me wrong, but walrus ivory has two components: homogenously white/yellowish on the outside and more inner marbled ( oat-meal like) layer.

I would agree with the dating: late XIX- very early XX century.

Overall, a nice European officer sword.

David R · 9th March 2020, 01:06 PM

European sword in the Mameluke style, possibly French.

Kubur · 9th March 2020, 09:14 PM

It is most probably an Austrian sword mid to late 19th c. so 1880ties seems correct to me.

For more please look at this thread and the discussion about pseudo islamic script

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...do+inscription

Bryce · 9th March 2020, 11:27 PM

G'day Cathey and Rex,

I think it is probably a 19th Century, British or American band sword. The grip looks to be bone and this style of carving is common on American swords.

Cheers,
Bryce

ariel · 10th March 2020, 03:10 AM

Well, as expected: Hungarian, Austrian, French, British, American...
Take your pick.
The longer you wait, the more attributions will be offered:-)

David R · 10th March 2020, 06:10 PM

I think I will go with Bryce on this one, I see what he means about US style carving.
The naive interpretation of Arabic would also fit.

Cathey · 12th March 2020, 03:07 AM

Hi Guys,

Don't think it is a band sword due to the size and the inclusion of decoration (albeit small) on the blade. I have examples of grips carved in both bone and ivory in this style that are English as well as American, so I will pursue those avenues at this stage.

At least now I know I am not looking for a Turkish Sword, which is more than I knew when it first arrived.

Cheers Cathey and Rex

Kubur · 12th March 2020, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David R

The naive interpretation of Arabic would also fit.

Precisely David, you don't have such engravings on American swords.

9th March 2020, 05:14 AM	#1
Cathey Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: adelaide south australia Posts: 282	Turkish Officer's Sword Hi Guys This sword belonged to a friend of mine who sadly passed away last year. I am assuming it is a Turkish Officers Sword buy it is completely out of my field so I am hoping someone may be abale to tell me more about it. My Fried had it listed as a Turkish General Sword with Ivory handle and steel scabbard. I think the grip might be bone or walrus ivory, rather than elephant ivory. It looks to me to be around circa late 1880’s. The overall length in its Scabbard is 35 ¼” 89.6 cm, sword only is 34 1/8” 86.7 cm, and the blade is 28 ¼” 71.8 cm long. Cheers Cathey and Rex Attached Images

9th March 2020, 07:18 AM	#2
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	It is a European variant of the so-called “ Mameluke sword”. They appeared after the Egypt campaign of Napoleon and became very popular. The idea that it belonged to a Turkish officer likely stems from the impression that the blade carries genuine” Islamic” inscriptions. However, they are just a meaningless array of curved lines, an imitation of the Islamic script. Such a decoration was often seen on European blades, especially on the Hungarian ones. However, they do not provide a clue to accurate attribution. The blade may be ( not certain) made of mechanical Damascus ( pattern welding), but polishing, etching and better pics are needed to be certain. Furthermore, European swords, unlike Oriental ones, almost always had steel scabbards. That was good from the point of view of longevity, but bad because they dulled the edge. Metal plate covering upper side of the handle and the pommel is also a typical European feature. I cannot be sure about the organic material of the handle, but cannot see anything pointing out to elephant or walrus ivory. The upper part of the organic part has multiple slightly elongated black components. If real, they would suggest just long bone ( bovine as a rule): remnants of blood capillaries on the surface, the periosteum. If there are different pics, they may prove me wrong, but walrus ivory has two components: homogenously white/yellowish on the outside and more inner marbled ( oat-meal like) layer. I would agree with the dating: late XIX- very early XX century. Overall, a nice European officer sword. Last edited by ariel; 9th March 2020 at 07:32 AM.

12th March 2020, 03:07 AM	#8
Cathey Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: adelaide south australia Posts: 282	Turkish Officer's Sword Hi Guys, Don't think it is a band sword due to the size and the inclusion of decoration (albeit small) on the blade. I have examples of grips carved in both bone and ivory in this style that are English as well as American, so I will pursue those avenues at this stage. At least now I know I am not looking for a Turkish Sword, which is more than I knew when it first arrived. Cheers Cathey and Rex

9th March 2020, 01:06 PM	#3
David R Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,079	European sword in the Mameluke style, possibly French.

9th March 2020, 09:14 PM	#4
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	It is most probably an Austrian sword mid to late 19th c. so 1880ties seems correct to me. For more please look at this thread and the discussion about pseudo islamic script http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...do+inscription

9th March 2020, 11:27 PM	#5
Bryce Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: North Queensland, Australia Posts: 187	G'day Cathey and Rex, I think it is probably a 19th Century, British or American band sword. The grip looks to be bone and this style of carving is common on American swords. Cheers, Bryce

10th March 2020, 03:10 AM	#6
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Well, as expected: Hungarian, Austrian, French, British, American... Take your pick. The longer you wait, the more attributions will be offered:-)

10th March 2020, 06:10 PM	#7
David R Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,079	I think I will go with Bryce on this one, I see what he means about US style carving. The naive interpretation of Arabic would also fit.