THE OLDEST KNOWN YATAGHAN!!!!

ariel · 19th March 2006, 02:44 PM

Every book on Ottoman weapons states that the oldest known yataghan belonged to the sultan Suleiman the Magnificient. It dates from 933H, ie 1526/1527. It was made by a master named Akhmed Tekelu who was likely a member of the Turkoman tribe Teke, a member in the Kizilbashi confederation that was established in the XV century in Meshkhed ( Iran). He might have been brought to Turkey by the sultan Selim I in 1514 from Tebriz. Showh is a pic (you all know it very well, of course) from the Astvatsaturyan's book " Turkish Weapons".
Well, I recently got a book " Zanatsko oruzhje Balkana" which is a catalogue of the collection of the Military Museum in Belgrade. They casually mention a Yataghan in their collection, that has an ivory handle with a green stone and undeciphered inscription except for a short Arabian inscription " Oh Victorious" in an elliptical mark. It is dated 865H, ie 1460/1461. No photo is provided.
If true, this would be the oldest Yataghan known !!
Do we have any connections in Serbia to go there and photograph/examine this astonishing find?

rand · 8th October 2007, 06:58 AM

Hello Ariel,

Believe there are at least three more known early yataghans, one is now at the Metropoliten Museum of Art and from the same workshop, another is now at the exhibit in France was was made for Bayezid II (?), then is one more and the best of all of them with a one piece solid gold scabbard carved in three dimensions also made for Bayuzid II owned by the same collector.

These threee yataghans came from the same sale in LA about 28 years ago from the Mr Ingram collection. They were a gift from T E Lawrence (Lawrence of Arabia) to his friend Mr Ingram (Hollywood director) before his death. They were sent to auction by Mrs Ingram after her husbands death, prior to that she was hoping to receive the sum of $10,000 for the entire collection.

Sultan Suleyman the Lawgivers yataghan is either at Topkapi or the Military Museum in Turkey.

rand

rand · 9th October 2007, 04:05 AM

Hey Ariel,

Here are a couple photo's I took about 28 years ago of the yataghan for Beyuzid II now on display at the Louve.

rand

rand · 9th October 2007, 04:16 AM

Hey Ariel,

There is on more yataghan from this royal workshop, one at the Met, one at the exhibition in France, the one of the photo I posted, there is also one one with a completely solid gold scabbard that is the best of the four.

These are the four I know of, have handled three of them.......

rand

Emanuel · 11th March 2010, 04:15 PM

Don't think I've seen this before. I was struck by how "Indian" this yataghan looks, particularly the floral decoration. Any chance of a close-up scan?
The bolster is practically of khukri type.

So eastern movement of the Macedonian/Greek kopis, eastern development, and a western return as yataghan.

Greek kopis/machaira -> Indian adoption, mixed with local experimentation -> sosoun pata and khukri -> yataghan.

Thoughts...

TVV · 11th March 2010, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emanuel

Don't think I've seen this before. I was struck by how "Indian" this yataghan looks, particularly the floral decoration. Any chance of a close-up scan?
The bolster is practically of khukri type.

So eastern movement of the Macedonian/Greek kopis, eastern development, and a western return as yataghan.

Greek kopis/machaira -> Indian adoption, mixed with local experimentation -> sosoun pata and khukri -> yataghan.

Thoughts...

I respectfully disagree, and so does Dr. Elgood - there are no central Asian yataghans, and it seems the form simply never disappeared from the Balkans.

Regards,
Teodor

19th March 2006, 02:44 PM	#1
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	THE OLDEST KNOWN YATAGHAN!!!! Every book on Ottoman weapons states that the oldest known yataghan belonged to the sultan Suleiman the Magnificient. It dates from 933H, ie 1526/1527. It was made by a master named Akhmed Tekelu who was likely a member of the Turkoman tribe Teke, a member in the Kizilbashi confederation that was established in the XV century in Meshkhed ( Iran). He might have been brought to Turkey by the sultan Selim I in 1514 from Tebriz. Showh is a pic (you all know it very well, of course) from the Astvatsaturyan's book " Turkish Weapons". Well, I recently got a book " Zanatsko oruzhje Balkana" which is a catalogue of the collection of the Military Museum in Belgrade. They casually mention a Yataghan in their collection, that has an ivory handle with a green stone and undeciphered inscription except for a short Arabian inscription " Oh Victorious" in an elliptical mark. It is dated 865H, ie 1460/1461. No photo is provided. If true, this would be the oldest Yataghan known !! Do we have any connections in Serbia to go there and photograph/examine this astonishing find? Attached Images

8th October 2007, 06:58 AM	#2
rand Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 538	Three More Yataghans Hello Ariel, Believe there are at least three more known early yataghans, one is now at the Metropoliten Museum of Art and from the same workshop, another is now at the exhibit in France was was made for Bayezid II (?), then is one more and the best of all of them with a one piece solid gold scabbard carved in three dimensions also made for Bayuzid II owned by the same collector. These threee yataghans came from the same sale in LA about 28 years ago from the Mr Ingram collection. They were a gift from T E Lawrence (Lawrence of Arabia) to his friend Mr Ingram (Hollywood director) before his death. They were sent to auction by Mrs Ingram after her husbands death, prior to that she was hoping to receive the sum of $10,000 for the entire collection. Sultan Suleyman the Lawgivers yataghan is either at Topkapi or the Military Museum in Turkey. rand

9th October 2007, 04:05 AM	#3
rand Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 538	Yataghan for Beyuzid II Hey Ariel, Here are a couple photo's I took about 28 years ago of the yataghan for Beyuzid II now on display at the Louve. rand Attached Images

9th October 2007, 04:16 AM	#4
rand Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 538	One More Hey Ariel, There is on more yataghan from this royal workshop, one at the Met, one at the exhibition in France, the one of the photo I posted, there is also one one with a completely solid gold scabbard that is the best of the four. These are the four I know of, have handled three of them....... rand

11th March 2010, 04:15 PM	#5
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	Don't think I've seen this before. I was struck by how "Indian" this yataghan looks, particularly the floral decoration. Any chance of a close-up scan? The bolster is practically of khukri type. So eastern movement of the Macedonian/Greek kopis, eastern development, and a western return as yataghan. Greek kopis/machaira -> Indian adoption, mixed with local experimentation -> sosoun pata and khukri -> yataghan. Thoughts...