turkish ottoman officers sword writing

mavi1970 · 9th January 2010, 11:18 AM

can anyone deciver the writing with the size of pciture i have uploaded?
thanks

katana · 9th January 2010, 01:01 PM

Hi Mavi,
sorry cannot help with the translation, but wondered whether you could post more pictures of the sword. Do you have any other information about it ? The reason is that I am currently considering buying one that was recently offered to me. thank you.

Regards David

Atlantia · 9th January 2010, 02:15 PM

Here's bigger (but not much clearer)

Dom · 9th January 2010, 04:26 PM

Please
in respect of the general rules of this forum,
might you offer a pic (or several) of the complet weapon if your request is to have a translation
in advance thank you

à +

Dom

kronckew · 9th January 2010, 08:02 PM

the writing is upside down

Atlantia · 9th January 2010, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronckew

the writing is upside down

LOL, good point!

mavi1970 · 9th January 2010, 11:27 PM

hehe, i didnt know it was upside down. being turkish, old turkish/arabic is not my forte. particulairs of sword is its german made smaller size, 20 inch, probably an officer or artilery sword. there are other swords similair for sale like mine but the number on the blade and scabbard are different.
i will post more pics later.

Dom · 9th January 2010, 11:58 PM

Hi
what I might said, it's not Arabic language
could be Turkish ??
just the first word has been translated => ﺍﷲ => ALLAH => GOD

à +

Dom

mavi1970 · 10th January 2010, 02:05 PM

here is another picture. its so hard to take pictures and get the right light.

mavi1970 · 12th January 2010, 11:50 AM

here is a more clear picture, can anyone understand the writing?

katana · 12th January 2010, 03:06 PM

Hi,
after some research ...I can tell you that if old Turkish script it would date the sword WW1 or earlier. Apparently the Turks changed their alphabet to the latin characters after WWI.

The sword that I have been offered seems to have the identical script (the pictures sent to me are not to clear) including the 'decorative' scrolls either end. I would assume that this inscription is not 'personalised' to the owner but a 'standardised' inscription.

Regards David

katana · 12th January 2010, 03:31 PM

Found this ........a description of a very similar sword, WW1

Turkish junior Infantry Officer's sword and scabbard. The hilt has a brass D shape stirrup guard, a plain brass back strap and wooden grips with ten horizontal bands.

The straight plain blade has a double edge to a spear point and the ricasso has an Arabic inscription that reads as

'God (Allah) is with his own (or company)' . on the right side of blade

Hopefully,....translation found

Regards David

.

Dom · 12th January 2010, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by katana

the ricasso has an Arabic inscription that reads as

'God (Allah) is with his own (or company)' . on the right side of blade

Hopefully,....translation found

Hi David
might I correct you, when you wrote "the ricasso has an Arabic inscription"
revised by "the ricasso has an inscription in Arabic script ..."

coze, it's what ever you want as language, excepted from Arabic, sorry

à +

Dom

katana · 12th January 2010, 04:13 PM

Hi Dom,
sorry, but the wording was a quote from an internet source.... these are not my words .... I should have made that clear

All the best
David

caveman · 13th January 2010, 06:50 AM

gods name I like I like

mavi1970 · 16th January 2010, 02:56 PM

thanks for the translation. I have not seen many of these around, but its good to have one.
thanks

graeme gt · 17th January 2010, 12:37 PM

Hi Mavi, is the bottom of the scabbard cut and not been finished of ?

mavi1970 · 17th January 2010, 09:45 PM

actually its stock that way. not cut off but produced for the size of the sword.

graeme gt · 18th January 2010, 04:50 PM

Hi Mavi,I had the same or very similar years ago i was under the impression that it was Turkish 1WW .I thought mine was a cut down full sized sword used as a trench knife or a side arm but i could be wrong .

erlikhan · 18th January 2010, 09:11 PM

Hi. it is a ww1 period Turkish military sword. i know it as not infantry but artillery officers sword.They were produced in several (at least 3) different lengths with the same scabbards and hilt,and with differing steel qualities. Plus,there are a few models more,which were not produced in Turkey but imported from Germany ,having blades with German maker marks. All of them were straight. However,only once I met a sample with curved,strong blade, again with the same hilt model and the same inscription. Perhaps was a private order.. I dont read Arabic alphabet,but as far as I know the inscription writes "Allah bizimledir" in Turkish meaning "Allah(God) is with us".

regards

katana · 1st February 2010, 01:58 PM

Hi Mavi,
have now got the Turkish officers sword I mentioned earlier. Good quality steel and a horn handle. I have posted this on the European Armoury Forum, in case you are interested

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...6572#post96572

Regards David

mavi1970 · 6th February 2010, 01:01 PM

David,

nice sword, congrats on your purchase. there was another one on sale on flea bay that just ended that i missed and went quite reasonably for the economy now. I wonder if your blade will clean, but you are lucky with the rhino handle, mine is wood, but the blade is still shiny with no pits. i am lucky in that regard.
enjoy

katana · 7th February 2010, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavi1970

........ there was another one on sale on flea bay that just ended that i missed and went quite reasonably for the economy now.....

Hi Mavi,
thank you for your comments

I get the impression (from you) that these swords are no longer 'plentiful'. If this is the case.....do you have any idea why ?
Was this the sword you were refering to.......
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Regards David

.

mavi1970 · 10th February 2010, 01:08 AM

Yes,
that was the sword I was referring too. Reasonable price. I had not seen many for sale for years, then in the last bit there has been quite a few for sale. Could be the economy. Still after that elusive ottoman/turkish kilij I want, but have not been able to afford, and probablyu never can.

Lee · 25th August 2010, 05:32 PM

Received by e-mail:

Salaam,
This is Efdaluddin Kilic from Istanbul. I am a calligrapher and sort of expert on Ottoman texts. I have been asked about a sword this morning by one of my friends and while searching I came across with your website. The same sword on http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=11300 is in front of me at home now. And to be a sort of help to your forum the inscription reads in Turkish but with the Islamic letters ¨ ALLAH BIZIMLE¨ and means ¨Allah (God) is with us¨.
Cordially,
Efdaluddin Kilic
www.efdaluddin.com/

broadaxe · 28th August 2010, 12:43 PM

Interesting enough and good that the subject emerged again. I received an identical sword for research and identification a couple of days ago. Same marks, full double edge blade is 17" long and of pretty good quality. It is very sharp, not the regular arsenal edge. I've encountered several WWI-era turkish military swords, also curved - these were usualy very similar to the German officer's saber of the period, but of inferior quality. I also held naval short sword with marine motifs. That straight sword may have been also police issue, 1910 model.

mavi1970 · 29th August 2010, 11:29 PM

well since i aquired that sword i have bought another 4 similari, one short but 3 same, and sharp as this one. just adding to my collection. most have the same writing. variations are evident though.

9th January 2010, 11:18 AM	#1
mavi1970 Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: canada Posts: 90	turkish ottoman officers sword writing can anyone deciver the writing with the size of pciture i have uploaded? thanks Attached Images

9th January 2010, 02:15 PM	#3
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Here's bigger (but not much clearer) Last edited by Atlantia; 9th January 2010 at 08:18 PM.

9th January 2010, 11:27 PM	#7
mavi1970 Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: canada Posts: 90	hehe, i didnt know it was upside down. being turkish, old turkish/arabic is not my forte. particulairs of sword is its german made smaller size, 20 inch, probably an officer or artilery sword. there are other swords similair for sale like mine but the number on the blade and scabbard are different. i will post more pics later. Attached Images

9th January 2010, 11:58 PM	#8
Dom Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Paris (FR*) Cairo (EG) Posts: 1,142	Hi what I might said, it's not Arabic language could be Turkish ?? just the first word has been translated => ﺍﷲ => ALLAH => GOD à + Dom Attached Images

10th January 2010, 02:05 PM	#9
mavi1970 Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: canada Posts: 90	here is another picture. its so hard to take pictures and get the right light. Attached Images

9th January 2010, 01:01 PM	#2
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Hi Mavi, sorry cannot help with the translation, but wondered whether you could post more pictures of the sword. Do you have any other information about it ? The reason is that I am currently considering buying one that was recently offered to me. thank you. Regards David

9th January 2010, 04:26 PM	#4
Dom Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Paris (FR*) Cairo (EG) Posts: 1,142	Please in respect of the general rules of this forum, might you offer a pic (or several) of the complet weapon if your request is to have a translation in advance thank you à + Dom

9th January 2010, 08:02 PM	#5
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,181	the writing is upside down

12th January 2010, 11:50 AM	#10
mavi1970 Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: canada Posts: 90	here is a more clear picture, can anyone understand the writing?

12th January 2010, 03:06 PM	#11
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Hi, after some research ...I can tell you that if old Turkish script it would date the sword WW1 or earlier. Apparently the Turks changed their alphabet to the latin characters after WWI. The sword that I have been offered seems to have the identical script (the pictures sent to me are not to clear) including the 'decorative' scrolls either end. I would assume that this inscription is not 'personalised' to the owner but a 'standardised' inscription. Regards David

12th January 2010, 03:31 PM	#12
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Found this ........a description of a very similar sword, WW1 Turkish junior Infantry Officer's sword and scabbard. The hilt has a brass D shape stirrup guard, a plain brass back strap and wooden grips with ten horizontal bands. The straight plain blade has a double edge to a spear point and the ricasso has an Arabic inscription that reads as 'God (Allah) is with his own (or company)' . on the right side of blade Hopefully,....translation found Regards David . Attached Images

12th January 2010, 04:13 PM	#14
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Hi Dom, sorry, but the wording was a quote from an internet source.... these are not my words .... I should have made that clear All the best David

13th January 2010, 06:50 AM	#15
caveman Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 11	gods name I like I like

16th January 2010, 02:56 PM	#16
mavi1970 Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: canada Posts: 90	thanks for the translation. I have not seen many of these around, but its good to have one. thanks

17th January 2010, 12:37 PM	#17
graeme gt Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 97	Hi Mavi, is the bottom of the scabbard cut and not been finished of ?

17th January 2010, 09:45 PM	#18
mavi1970 Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: canada Posts: 90	actually its stock that way. not cut off but produced for the size of the sword.

18th January 2010, 04:50 PM	#19
graeme gt Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 97	Hi Mavi,I had the same or very similar years ago i was under the impression that it was Turkish 1WW .I thought mine was a cut down full sized sword used as a trench knife or a side arm but i could be wrong .

18th January 2010, 09:11 PM	#20
erlikhan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Istanbul Posts: 452	Hi. it is a ww1 period Turkish military sword. i know it as not infantry but artillery officers sword.They were produced in several (at least 3) different lengths with the same scabbards and hilt,and with differing steel qualities. Plus,there are a few models more,which were not produced in Turkey but imported from Germany ,having blades with German maker marks. All of them were straight. However,only once I met a sample with curved,strong blade, again with the same hilt model and the same inscription. Perhaps was a private order.. I dont read Arabic alphabet,but as far as I know the inscription writes "Allah bizimledir" in Turkish meaning "Allah(God) is with us". regards

1st February 2010, 01:58 PM	#21
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Hi Mavi, have now got the Turkish officers sword I mentioned earlier. Good quality steel and a horn handle. I have posted this on the European Armoury Forum, in case you are interested http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...6572#post96572 Regards David

6th February 2010, 01:01 PM	#22
mavi1970 Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: canada Posts: 90	David, nice sword, congrats on your purchase. there was another one on sale on flea bay that just ended that i missed and went quite reasonably for the economy now. I wonder if your blade will clean, but you are lucky with the rhino handle, mine is wood, but the blade is still shiny with no pits. i am lucky in that regard. enjoy

10th February 2010, 01:08 AM	#24
mavi1970 Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: canada Posts: 90	Yes, that was the sword I was referring too. Reasonable price. I had not seen many for sale for years, then in the last bit there has been quite a few for sale. Could be the economy. Still after that elusive ottoman/turkish kilij I want, but have not been able to afford, and probablyu never can.

25th August 2010, 05:32 PM	#25
Lee EAAF Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstate New York, USA Posts: 913	Help from Istanbul Received by e-mail: Salaam, This is Efdaluddin Kilic from Istanbul. I am a calligrapher and sort of expert on Ottoman texts. I have been asked about a sword this morning by one of my friends and while searching I came across with your website. The same sword on http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=11300 is in front of me at home now. And to be a sort of help to your forum the inscription reads in Turkish but with the Islamic letters ¨ ALLAH BIZIMLE¨ and means ¨Allah (God) is with us¨. Cordially, Efdaluddin Kilic www.efdaluddin.com/

28th August 2010, 12:43 PM	#26
broadaxe Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 332	Interesting enough and good that the subject emerged again. I received an identical sword for research and identification a couple of days ago. Same marks, full double edge blade is 17" long and of pretty good quality. It is very sharp, not the regular arsenal edge. I've encountered several WWI-era turkish military swords, also curved - these were usualy very similar to the German officer's saber of the period, but of inferior quality. I also held naval short sword with marine motifs. That straight sword may have been also police issue, 1910 model.

29th August 2010, 11:29 PM	#27
mavi1970 Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: canada Posts: 90	well since i aquired that sword i have bought another 4 similari, one short but 3 same, and sharp as this one. just adding to my collection. most have the same writing. variations are evident though.