Battered Blade.

Norman McCormick · 19th March 2009, 10:33 PM

Hi Guys,
I have had this blade for as long as I can remember indeed if my memory serves it was one of the first. I have never done anything with it I suppose because, what do you do? leave it, rebuild it or something in between.
Quite some time ago I did put it on another forum, which wasn't really ethnographically minded, and one member was kind enough to translate the script which I have subsequently mislaid but there was no consensus as far as where? what? and when? so looking for ideas on history and practical measures if any.
Regards,
Norman.

RSWORD · 19th March 2009, 11:02 PM

What you have is a Persian trade blade and there is a high probability that the blade is wootz. Very nice crossguard. What to do with it is quite a personal preference but it could be restored in that the blade and guard can be professionally polished to bring out the wootz and a proper grip scale with pommel can be created to really bring it back to some former glory. Many would leave as it is. The long inscription panel roughly translates, "There is no might, nor will, save with God, the exalted, the Almighty". On the opposite side, the smaller cartouche reads "Oh fulfiller of needs". There is a large myriad of blade shapes, curvatures, fullering, quality of wootz, quality of chiseling, and style of mount that fall within this Persian trade blade category.

Gt Obach · 20th March 2009, 06:03 AM

missing the kolah ( pommel cap ) and ahanak (tang bands ) otherwise its a cool piece !
- do you see any sign of watering.... or long crack like lines on the spine of the blade

Norman McCormick · 21st March 2009, 05:41 PM

Hi Guys,
Many thanks for the info and the translation. Wootz maybe, that's a wee bit of a nice surprise. The perennial problem of whether to leave well alone or not? I would like some more thoughts on this if possible. If this were a fighting sword in a fighting situation I would think the blade, where it is very badly chipped, would be re-profiled and the furniture refurbished to 'working' order. Would this be an option as a 'collected' piece or not? As it is quite badly damaged, re the blade, how far do you go if at all. The blade does indeed have crack like lines on the spine. On another note would anybody care to hazard an approximate date. Thanks again for your interest.
My Regards,
Norman.
P.S. Found these marks on the spine (see photo).

Gt Obach · 21st March 2009, 08:15 PM

Hi Norman

in my opinion.. ( i'm not a collector ) i'd have the handle rebuilt..it'll be obvious its new
- and waterings restored on fulad blade.. and no reshaping the tip and cop.. in my opinion that would take from the flavour of the blade.. as chips were from heavy use.... if you regrind the tip ..it'll take away from the straightness, and it'll be very obvious and odd

good luck on it

RSWORD · 23rd March 2009, 12:18 AM

In my opinion the blade and crossguard is most likely late 18th to early 19th century. These trade blades are almost invariably wootz and a professional polish would reveal the pattern. A proper grip and pommel cap could be done that would not look brand spanking new and would be historically correct to honor this old warrior. If you decide on restoration as the route to go feel free to PM me for a referral to, in my opinion, the best in the business.

Norman McCormick · 23rd March 2009, 07:29 PM

Hi,
Many thanks for the information and the advice. I have taken on board all you have said with regard to refurbishing the blade and it is something I intend to look into. Are the markings on the spine of the blade Arabic numerals?Thanks again.
My Regards,
Norman.

Dom · 24th March 2009, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norman McCormick

Are the markings on the spine of the blade Arabic numerals?

Hi
apparently, it's not arabic digits

à +

Dom

Norman McCormick · 24th March 2009, 12:13 AM

Hi Dom,
Many thanks, again.

My Regards,
Norman.

Hi Guys,
Any ideas?
Regards,
Norman.

wilked aka Khun Deng · 24th March 2009, 07:57 AM

Norman,
What a nice piece, one on those pieces you can just look at and know it has seen it's share of history.

Yes if I was a warrior and this was a tool of my trade I'd fix it up to working order. But none of us will ever be warriors depending on these for our survival and the rest of it is in not bad shape. If I just had the blade I'd try to get someone to dress it historically correct, but you already have that.

I'd agree with Gt Obach, cleaning and some polishing will restore its glory without taking away from the story it tells.

Dan

Norman McCormick · 24th March 2009, 10:10 PM

Hi Dan,
Thanks for you input, I think you are right the 'old warrior' has seen a bit of action in the past and deserves a bit of 'pampering'.
My Regards,
Norman.

19th March 2009, 10:33 PM	#1
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,597	Battered Blade. Hi Guys, I have had this blade for as long as I can remember indeed if my memory serves it was one of the first. I have never done anything with it I suppose because, what do you do? leave it, rebuild it or something in between. Quite some time ago I did put it on another forum, which wasn't really ethnographically minded, and one member was kind enough to translate the script which I have subsequently mislaid but there was no consensus as far as where? what? and when? so looking for ideas on history and practical measures if any. Regards, Norman. Attached Images Last edited by Norman McCormick; 19th March 2009 at 10:46 PM.

21st March 2009, 05:41 PM	#4
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,597	Hi Guys, Many thanks for the info and the translation. Wootz maybe, that's a wee bit of a nice surprise. The perennial problem of whether to leave well alone or not? I would like some more thoughts on this if possible. If this were a fighting sword in a fighting situation I would think the blade, where it is very badly chipped, would be re-profiled and the furniture refurbished to 'working' order. Would this be an option as a 'collected' piece or not? As it is quite badly damaged, re the blade, how far do you go if at all. The blade does indeed have crack like lines on the spine. On another note would anybody care to hazard an approximate date. Thanks again for your interest. My Regards, Norman. P.S. Found these marks on the spine (see photo). Attached Images Last edited by Norman McCormick; 21st March 2009 at 06:02 PM.

19th March 2009, 11:02 PM	#2
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,083	What you have is a Persian trade blade and there is a high probability that the blade is wootz. Very nice crossguard. What to do with it is quite a personal preference but it could be restored in that the blade and guard can be professionally polished to bring out the wootz and a proper grip scale with pommel can be created to really bring it back to some former glory. Many would leave as it is. The long inscription panel roughly translates, "There is no might, nor will, save with God, the exalted, the Almighty". On the opposite side, the smaller cartouche reads "Oh fulfiller of needs". There is a large myriad of blade shapes, curvatures, fullering, quality of wootz, quality of chiseling, and style of mount that fall within this Persian trade blade category.

20th March 2009, 06:03 AM	#3
Gt Obach Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 116	missing the kolah ( pommel cap ) and ahanak (tang bands ) otherwise its a cool piece ! - do you see any sign of watering.... or long crack like lines on the spine of the blade

21st March 2009, 08:15 PM	#5
Gt Obach Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 116	Hi Norman in my opinion.. ( i'm not a collector ) i'd have the handle rebuilt..it'll be obvious its new - and waterings restored on fulad blade.. and no reshaping the tip and cop.. in my opinion that would take from the flavour of the blade.. as chips were from heavy use.... if you regrind the tip ..it'll take away from the straightness, and it'll be very obvious and odd good luck on it

23rd March 2009, 12:18 AM	#6
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,083	In my opinion the blade and crossguard is most likely late 18th to early 19th century. These trade blades are almost invariably wootz and a professional polish would reveal the pattern. A proper grip and pommel cap could be done that would not look brand spanking new and would be historically correct to honor this old warrior. If you decide on restoration as the route to go feel free to PM me for a referral to, in my opinion, the best in the business.

23rd March 2009, 07:29 PM	#7
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,597	Hi, Many thanks for the information and the advice. I have taken on board all you have said with regard to refurbishing the blade and it is something I intend to look into. Are the markings on the spine of the blade Arabic numerals?Thanks again. My Regards, Norman.

24th March 2009, 12:13 AM	#9
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,597	Hi Dom, Many thanks, again. My Regards, Norman. Hi Guys, Any ideas? Regards, Norman.

24th March 2009, 07:57 AM	#10
wilked aka Khun Deng Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Oahu, Hawaii Posts: 166	Norman, What a nice piece, one on those pieces you can just look at and know it has seen it's share of history. Yes if I was a warrior and this was a tool of my trade I'd fix it up to working order. But none of us will ever be warriors depending on these for our survival and the rest of it is in not bad shape. If I just had the blade I'd try to get someone to dress it historically correct, but you already have that. I'd agree with Gt Obach, cleaning and some polishing will restore its glory without taking away from the story it tells. Dan

24th March 2009, 10:10 PM	#11
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,597	Hi Dan, Thanks for you input, I think you are right the 'old warrior' has seen a bit of action in the past and deserves a bit of 'pampering'. My Regards, Norman.