Vendetta dagger new purchase.

[David R]

For some reason all the posts about these are on this Ethnographic page, even though they are French/Italian in origin. Browsing one of my regular online retail sites this piece came up at the right price, so I bought it, and it arrived a couple of days later. It has damage but the price reflected that so I am happy enough. Most of the pics are ones posted by the vendor, being better than what I take, and the last two are mine.

[Sajen]

Hello David,

It's an Corsican Vendetta dagger. Sadly it's missing the end cap at the handle, most probably from german silver. End 19th century. How long is it?
Attached are my three examples.

Regards,
Detlef

[Gonzoadler]

Hello,

nice piece, I like this Vendetta daggers. Here is one from my collection:

total length 24cm; without scabbard 23cm; blade 12,5cm

[fernando]

Modern ... 20th century ? .

[David R]

Originally Posted by fernando

Modern ... 20th century ? .

Which one, mine or the one just above posted by Gonzoadler?

[David R]

Originally Posted by Sajen

Hello David,

It's an Corsican Vendetta dagger. Sadly it's missing the end cap at the handle, most probably from german silver. End 19th century. How long is it?
Attached are my three examples.

Regards,
Detlef

Hiya, it is a pity about the damage, but it came in at less than half what they normally go for, and it's fixable. I am thinking of using a junk coin for the end cap or something similar. Just over 23 cm long total, out of the scabbard.

They remind me very much of the "Sam Bell" dirks in the US.

[fernando]

Originally Posted by David R

Which one, mine or the one just above posted by Gonzoadler?

The one just posted by Gonzoadler ... i am afraid .

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by fernando

The one just posted by Gonzoadler ... i am afraid .

Hello Fernando,

I am nearly sure that you don't need to be afraid, I've never seen modern ones and the piece in question shows clearly signs of age.
What let you think like this?

Regards,
Detlef

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Sajen

Hello Fernando,

I am nearly sure that you don't need to be afraid, I've never seen modern ones and the piece in question shows clearly signs of age.
What let you think like this?

Regards,
Detlef

My time to ask; what do you mean by piece in question ?. If you are referring to Gonzoadler's example, the whole setup looks 20th century or newer to me. But i know next to nothing; reason why i have shown my doubts ... and question marks !

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by fernando

My time to ask; what do you mean by piece in question ?. If you are referring to Gonzoadler's example, the whole setup looks 20th century or newer to me. But i know next to nothing; reason why i have shown my doubts ... and question marks !

Hello Fernando,

I was speaking about Gonzoadler's example, the german silver is very dull and the fabric which covers the scabbard is quite worn.
I have a lot of pictures from similar knives in my store which look very very similar to Gonzoadler's example, all around 1900, when I remember correctly many examples have been from a knowledge collector.

Regards,
Detlef

[fernando]

Duly noted, Delef .

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by fernando

Duly noted, Delef .

Thanks Fernando, when you look close to the last example I've posted you can see that these knives also have been early souveniers. It's also dated.

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Sajen

Thanks Fernando, when you look close to the last example I've posted you can see that these knives also have been early souveniers. It's also dated.

I see that you call them souveniers, Detlef. Aren't they more a mythic creation for tourists than an actual weapon to be used by locals ?
Is this link a reasonable story ?

https://knives-of-france-blog.com/vendetta-knife/



.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by fernando

I see that you call them souveniers, Sajen. Aren't they more a mythic creation for tourists than an actual weapon to be used by locals ?
Is this link a reasonable story ?

https://knives-of-france-blog.com/vendetta-knife/

Oh, I guess that there are also real weapons which were used as them. But these are very rare. My example with bone grip could be such an example like the ones in the pictures. It will be the same as with many other knives like Bosnian bichaqs, Canarian knives, faca de ponta, Albacete daggers and many others. The examples for souvenir developed from real weapons.

Regards,
Detlef

[Gonzoadler]

I think that many 19th and early 20th century Vendetta daggers are decorative or touristic, too. A second piece I own is a miniature version. Because of the size and the delicate construction it is not a really good weapon.

total length 19.5cm; blade length 11.5cm

[David R]

I think the "give-away" is when the bolster is not forged in one with the blade, but is a separate piece fitted below the choil.
There are a LOT of small daggers out there, Gamblers, Prostitutes and the US "Sam Bell Dirks"... and when we go back in time, the tiny Venetian Stilettos. We also get a category known as "Muff Daggers" and also tiny pistols known as "Muff Pistols", subjects for some fun discussion and research.
Personal opinion.... would it do the job? Not always to kill, but to discourage.... a bit like a Velo-dog pistol!

[Interested Party]

11.5 cm should be enough for an average sized human. I always imagined these were for up close and personal use with a sewing machine like thrust. If I remember correctly Levine said the folding vendetta knives didn't have a release for the blade's locking mechanism. So, I have always assumed the knife was left with the victim. Both points are pure speculation.

DavidR good eye about the bolster.

[Sajen]

I am nearly sure that the bolster is always integral!

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Sajen

... The examples for souvenir developed from real weapons...

Detlef, may i suggest that it is well established that these knives are a product motivated by romanticized sources and were never real weapons. We can read publications (New York Times 1881 for one) in that vendettas were perpretated mostly with period muzzle loading guns, not daggers.
Let me hijack a translation made by Chris Evans from Spanish Abel A. Domenech's Book Navajas/Cuchillos Plegables):

The successful publishing of the novela "Colomba" by Prospero Merimee in 1840, introduced large numbers in France to a highly romanticized rendition of Corsica, with its passionate and quarelsome inhabitants. This distorted presentation exalted the fierce and indomitable bandit, ever ready to shed blood in the defence of his land, family relations and honour. The general impression conveyed was that the whole population of this island was permanently embroiled in vendettas, the causes of which were buried in the mists of time. What is certain is that whatever vendettas there were, were prosecuted mostly with the muzzle loading guns of the day. But popular romantic notions demanded nobler weapons, and the novelae authors obliged with swords and gigantic folding knives.

The cutlers of Thiers could not ignore the commercial opportunities presented by all this combined with the then emergent tourism to the island; As such, we find that the most peddled souvenir, to visitors, was the folding knife allegedly used in the aforementioned feuds.

To satisfy this new market, the cutlers of Thiers settled on a folding knife that many years before was sold in the Mediteranean regions under the name of "Maltes" and "Neapolitan". It had a long slim and pointy blade, the handle of which was provided with a large metallic bolster and a backspring that affixed it in the open position. The scales were of horn or bone, decorated with arabesques and floral motives, drawn with Indian ink, and with the ever present Moor's Head (Tete de More), the emblem of the island. The blades are nearly always acid engraved with popular captions that encapsulate imputed popular sentiments such as "Vendetta Corsa", "Death To My Enemy" and so on.

The introduction of this knife met with enormous commercial success and the format was and is manufactured to this day in sizes ranging from the diminutive to very large, over 60cms, specimens. This imposed upon the popular mind the form of the native Corsican knife, what it ought to be, which became and remains an icon of the island.

[Sajen]

Hello Fernando,

Could it be that the quoted article speaks about the folding knives like shown by these examples in the pictures?

Regards,
Detlef

[fernando]

Then you would have two styles of Vendetta Corsa .
If you care to pay a little attention to the link in post #13.
Mind you, i am no authority in this subject ... at all. Just trying to reach conclusions.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by fernando

Then you would have two styles of Vendetta Corsa .
If you care to pay a little attention to the link in post #13.
Mind you, i am no authority in this subject ... at all. Just trying to reach conclusions.

I'm certainly not an expert on these knives either Fernando!
But in this link is also written that Corsica was long time under "Genoan domination for centuries" and you surely aware about the Genovese stiletto so for me it's nearby that the Corsican stiletto knives erose from them and thus you have real antique examples.
Attached are a few Genovese examples.

Regards,
Detlef

[fernando]

Yes but, those are not named Vendettas. Such name was attributed later to these beautiful souveniers for commercial purposes, after Prosper Merimee wrote the novel Colomba. Apparently not that he narrated revenges being executed with daggers, but instead firearms, as we may read in a determined paragraph of the novel.
I guess i would not link one to the other.
But again, i know nothing ... and appologize for all this hijacking David's thread. .


.

[kronckew]

A pair 'modern' folding Corsican stylet with the acute triangular edge and spine, from a dealer in Corsica, who got them from one of the last 'traditional 'Stylet' (stilleto or 'vendetta) makers on the island. Went back later to buy a fixed blade version recently, but can't find the dealer now. The Wood gripped one has the 'spanish notch' and no lock, The white bone one doesn't have the notch, but has a back lock.

[kronckew]

Aha - found the dealer again.
Ordered this fixed blade one, horn grip: (nicer box too)


Inspired by a strongly identical dagger, also known as "the respect-bearer,
this knife features a horn handle with a turquoise finish at its tip.

Fixed blade 14 cm (5.5 in.): semi-guilloche
Dimension: 23 cm (9 in.)
Weight: 86 g (3.03 oz.)

[David R]

Originally Posted by fernando

... and appologize for all this hijacking David's thread. .
.

No need for apologies, I actually hoped to start a long discussion thread with my post.

What I see are two distinct styles of dagger, the fixed blade and the folder, and I have no argument with the folder being a late creation of and for the market.

The fixed blade "Stiletto" is evidently a form of Mediterranean dirk with a long ancestry, and the etching being a promotional aid to boost sales. A bit like the mottoes on Sheffield Bowies, that were non the less carried in the US during the Cowboy era.

[fernando]

Sure thing, David

[David R]

After wittering on about them, I thought it an idea to post a pic of a couple of "Sam Bell" dirks, dating to the mid 19thC and described as small enough to go on a watch chain.
He worked as a knife maker and retailer in Tennessee and later in Texas.

[fernando]

Very nice .

[kronckew]

Cool, I like. any dimensions?