Shipwreck Recovered Sword Grip For Identification

dana_w · 27th June 2014, 10:04 PM

This grip was recovered from a shipwreck in the Golf de la Gonave near Port-au-price Haiti. It is believed that the ship was French and that it sank in a storm shortly after participating in the blockade of New York during America's Revolutionary War in 1781.

The photos are copyright (c) 2014 by Dana K. Williams. All Rights Are Reserved.

M ELEY · 28th June 2014, 05:03 AM

Awesome shipwreck find! You've probably heard me spout off in the past about how fascinating these types of items are. As you surmised, this appears to be the brass hilt (note the greenish blue verdigris/oxidation) from a French infanty type sword of the period you mentioned. I'm currently at work without access to Neumann's book, but the clues to it being French is the birdhead shaped pommel, large cap, ribbed solid brass grip and the straight quillon with the square quillon end cap. Despite its rough condition, it is a testimony to the resistance of brass to rusting that it survived at all (note the iron blade probably didn't even last a decade submerged!!

M ELEY · 28th June 2014, 05:30 AM

Ha! I found it! Its a m1767 French Grenadiere sword. Remember that in this time period, there were no specific models of naval swords for any nation. Officers carried whatever pleased their own taste. Brass hilt types were popular at sea as they retarded rust oxidation. There were several French naval patterns of swords from this period worn by officer types, which very closely resembled the common briquits worn by infantry and such, but no solid rules to what was required. Shorter bladed hangers and infantry swords were also popular as they were more efficient on crowded ship's decks and were less likely to get caught in the rigging when being swung.

Officers could basically choose which type of sword they wished to carry. In Annis' "Swords for Sea Service", the Maritime Museum identifies even cavalry types, baskethilts, foot officer's swords, etc, etc, going to sea.

One final postulation that has to be considered is whether this shipwreck was transporting military troops (i.e. non-naval, and thus a grenadiere sword) or whether your ship might have been a privateer (PIRATE!

), in which case, any manner of sword would have been carried.

Here's one from Dmitri's excellent site-
www.sailorinsaddle.com/product.aspx?id=1396

dana_w · 28th June 2014, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M ELEY

Ha! I found it! Its a m1767 French Grenadiere sword.

Thanks M ELEY, that is a great help.

The ship was large and copper bottomed. Both cannons and encrusted muskets / musket parts were recovered from her. As I photograph more items I will post some of them here.

dana_w · 29th June 2014, 12:48 AM

For comparison purposes here is a "FRENCH GRENADIER HANGER C.1767" which sold recently at auction next to the recovered grip.

M ELEY · 29th June 2014, 03:38 AM

Great! Looking forward to more pics!

dana_w · 30th June 2014, 11:35 PM

I've found indications that the grip is most likely from a French Marine Cutlass / Briquet. It was based on the Model 1767, but lacks the reverse langets on the stirrup guard.

M ELEY · 1st July 2014, 03:46 AM

Good work, Dana! As mentioned, the brass-hilted French swords of that period were all very similar. The briquet and its many patterns are a study unto themselves. The marine model absolutely fits the history, though.

27th June 2014, 10:04 PM	#1
dana_w Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Southeast Florida, USA Posts: 429	Shipwreck Recovered Sword Grip For Identification This grip was recovered from a shipwreck in the Golf de la Gonave near Port-au-price Haiti. It is believed that the ship was French and that it sank in a storm shortly after participating in the blockade of New York during America's Revolutionary War in 1781. The photos are copyright (c) 2014 by Dana K. Williams. All Rights Are Reserved. Attached Images

28th June 2014, 05:03 AM	#2
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,097	Awesome shipwreck find! You've probably heard me spout off in the past about how fascinating these types of items are. As you surmised, this appears to be the brass hilt (note the greenish blue verdigris/oxidation) from a French infanty type sword of the period you mentioned. I'm currently at work without access to Neumann's book, but the clues to it being French is the birdhead shaped pommel, large cap, ribbed solid brass grip and the straight quillon with the square quillon end cap. Despite its rough condition, it is a testimony to the resistance of brass to rusting that it survived at all (note the iron blade probably didn't even last a decade submerged!! Last edited by M ELEY; 28th June 2014 at 05:33 AM.

28th June 2014, 05:30 AM	#3
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,097	Ha! I found it! Its a m1767 French Grenadiere sword. Remember that in this time period, there were no specific models of naval swords for any nation. Officers carried whatever pleased their own taste. Brass hilt types were popular at sea as they retarded rust oxidation. There were several French naval patterns of swords from this period worn by officer types, which very closely resembled the common briquits worn by infantry and such, but no solid rules to what was required. Shorter bladed hangers and infantry swords were also popular as they were more efficient on crowded ship's decks and were less likely to get caught in the rigging when being swung. Officers could basically choose which type of sword they wished to carry. In Annis' "Swords for Sea Service", the Maritime Museum identifies even cavalry types, baskethilts, foot officer's swords, etc, etc, going to sea. One final postulation that has to be considered is whether this shipwreck was transporting military troops (i.e. non-naval, and thus a grenadiere sword) or whether your ship might have been a privateer (PIRATE! ), in which case, any manner of sword would have been carried. Here's one from Dmitri's excellent site- www.sailorinsaddle.com/product.aspx?id=1396 Last edited by M ELEY; 28th June 2014 at 05:44 AM.

29th June 2014, 12:48 AM	#5
dana_w Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Southeast Florida, USA Posts: 429	For comparison purposes here is a "FRENCH GRENADIER HANGER C.1767" which sold recently at auction next to the recovered grip. Attached Images

29th June 2014, 03:38 AM	#6
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,097	Great! Looking forward to more pics!

30th June 2014, 11:35 PM	#7
dana_w Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Southeast Florida, USA Posts: 429	I've found indications that the grip is most likely from a French Marine Cutlass / Briquet. It was based on the Model 1767, but lacks the reverse langets on the stirrup guard.

1st July 2014, 03:46 AM	#8
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,097	Good work, Dana! As mentioned, the brass-hilted French swords of that period were all very similar. The briquet and its many patterns are a study unto themselves. The marine model absolutely fits the history, though.