Sino-vietnamese fighting knife

[Yvain]

Hi all!



Snatched this sino-vietnamese fighting knife for 10€ at the flea market this weekend! I'm pretty happy it, since I didn't have one of those in my collection yet, and especially for that price!



It's a long, heavy knife, with a very thick spine and slightly concave sides. Polish is pretty rough, don't know if it was always that way though. The grip is made of bone, with brass pommel and guard.



I read that those were used by the black flag army, which would make sense since I found it in France (the black flag army fought the French during the sino-french war 1884-1885).



Anyway, would love to hear your thoughts about it! 🙂

[David R]

Nice one!

[RobT]

Hi All,

I Have seen pictures of these in old US publications that identified them as one of the knives used by Chinese tongs. I had always thought of them as purely Chinese. It will be interesting to hear what more knowledgeable forum members have to say.

Sincerely,
RobT

[Yvain]

Hi Rob,



From what I've read, this type of knife originated in Southern China, however some were also produced in North-Vietnam due to the exile of the black flag army there. I also read that some were even made in the US by Chinese immigrants!

[Ian]

Hi Yvain,

This is a common pattern for a southern Chinese knife. It is not surprising that it also occurred in Vietnam. Certainly, these knives entered the U.S. with Chinese immigrants and may have been made there also.

The brass work on the hilt is a little unusual and fancier than most examples. It does not seem to have been used much and does not strike me as being very old. Perhaps this was obtained in Hanoi by a French person during the colonial period, in which case it could be as recent as mid-20th C.

[Ren Ren]

This type of knife is associated with the Zhuang people on the Chinese Internet. The Nong people of Vietnam are known for their blacksmithing skills. In China, the Nong are considered an ethnic group within the Zhuang people. During the Sino-French War of 1884-85, the Nong/Zhuang actively fought on the side of Chinese proxies - the Black Flags and others, and after the war they were involved in cross-border crime, racketeering, robbery, kidnapping and trafficking in women.
At auctions, these knives are often labeled as "river pirate knives", but this is only partly true. In fact, the French called all organized gangs of criminals in Northern Vietnam "pirates".
In their shape and design, Nong/Zhuang knives are similar to the knives of the Chinese from the southern coastal provinces of Guangdong, Fujian, Zhejiang. They are distinguished by a rough finish and a common ornament in the form of circles with a dot in the center. Also, their handles are often made of horn, while Chinese handles were more often made of wood.

[ausjulius]

Originally Posted by Ren Ren

This type of knife is associated with the Zhuang people on the Chinese Internet. The Nong people of Vietnam are known for their blacksmithing skills. In China, the Nong are considered an ethnic group within the Zhuang people. During the Sino-French War of 1884-85, the Nong/Zhuang actively fought on the side of Chinese proxies - the Black Flags and others, and after the war they were involved in cross-border crime, racketeering, robbery, kidnapping and trafficking in women.
At auctions, these knives are often labeled as "river pirate knives", but this is only partly true. In fact, the French called all organized gangs of criminals in Northern Vietnam "pirates".
In their shape and design, Nong/Zhuang knives are similar to the knives of the Chinese from the southern coastal provinces of Guangdong, Fujian, Zhejiang. They are distinguished by a rough finish and a common ornament in the form of circles with a dot in the center. Also, their handles are often made of horn, while Chinese handles were more often made of wood.

Interesting, I have never seen these knives associated with Zhuang people.
They are always linked with costal people from Guangdong, northern Vietnam.
Do you have any references or period photos if these being made by Zhuang people?
Thanks

[Ren Ren]

Originally Posted by ausjulius

Interesting, I have never seen these knives associated with Zhuang people.
They are always linked with costal people from Guangdong, northern Vietnam.
Do you have any references or period photos if these being made by Zhuang people?
Thanks

You asked a question that I ask myself, but have not yet found an answer to it. But I am trying and searching. And of course I will share the results as soon as they appear.