Persian Sword and please to tell me

oswin · 13th June 2005, 10:12 AM

My family have this a Persian Sword for a long time, and I don't know that how does my family get it? And I will explain about this Persian Sword :
1. A holder made from a Coral (The holder 's original I think it 's not coral)
2. In the coral holder was decorated by gold copper and silver.
3. In the 2 side of sword was write as some alphabet and symbol.
And in the past 300 years ago, my primogenitor came from Astrabadi, Persia, he was name "Sheikh Ahmed", This time is in Ayuthaya period.(I reference from The Ship of Sulaiman and a book record by my family.
Please Tell me that you knows something about this Persian Sword.
Thank you so much.

Rick · 13th June 2005, 02:45 PM

Your sword could well be a re-hilted example of one of these :
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...highlight=jens

Lovely handle ; almost Japanese in the style of decoration .
Black coral that thick is very hard to come by these days .

Jens Nordlunde · 13th June 2005, 04:01 PM

Hi Oswin and welcome to the forum.

Why do you only comment on the first sword, and not on the second, the one with the Indian hilt?

Is the inscription on the blade from the first sword? The inscription looks more like Thai or one of the languages used in that area, the way the hilt is fitted to the blade too, like Rick writes.

Is it possible to get better pictures of both swords with details of the inscription(s)?

Does the two blades have a T spine?

The first sword could very well have been/be a rehilted Sailaba/Sossun Pata, the second one with the Indian hilt surely is a Sailaba/Sossun Pata, but the inscription is a puzzle.

Oriental-Arms · 13th June 2005, 04:23 PM

The second sword is definitely a Sailaba/Sossun Pata, as correctly stated by Jens. The first one, I am afraid is a re-hilted Ottoman Yataghan blade. I rather prefer to think that it is a Yataghan blade and not a Sailaba/Sossun Pata blade as there is no ricasso on it (Which is so common to the Indian blades). I suggest that the inscription is in Arabic letters (up-side down) and that the mark is a maker stamp so very common on Ottoman Yataghans. When where and why it was re-hilted is a mystery I guess.

oswin · 14th June 2005, 12:39 AM

That I think the sword is from Persian because my primogenitor came from Astrabadi of Persia. He was a muslim (Shi-a). He was a merchant-condotierri(semi merchant with soldier). He came in Ayuthaya when 300 years ago. In the route from Persia to Ayuthaya, he passed India and I think that he passes Hydarabad too, because Hydarabad was a big city. The possible that he received this sword in India. I think that hilt was repair because it was tumble down. And what is the Sailaba/Sossun Pata and Yataghan? . What is meaning inscription? The mark is a name of factory? Please to explain me. Thank you.

Rick · 14th June 2005, 12:54 AM

We have now seen three separate and different swords .

Let's discuss one at a time to avoid confusion please .

Which one of these swords that you have shown us has the makers stamp and decoration on the blade ?

Yannis · 16th June 2005, 10:26 AM

Oswin

Sossun Pata is a sword from India. Exactly the type you have in the second picture that I believe is a scan from a book.

Yataghan is an Ottoman sword. It is what you have in the most pictures minus the hilt. The inscription is with Arabic alphabet that it was used in Turkey before 1920. The blade is typical yataghan blade of mid 19th century. I suppose that the person who fixed the new hilt on it had no idea how the yataghan hilt looks or he wanted to have something unique.

The third sword looks like from China or Indochina but there are more experts here to say. I hope that this helps.

tom hyle · 16th June 2005, 10:58 AM

Yeah, the third one looks Vietnamese? The coral handle is interesting. It is an unusual piece of jewelry utilizing the natural shape of the coral; thus I would not read anything ethnic into the handle shape, but would perhaps look to the bolster/ferule (which seems somewhat peculiar and yet somehow familiar) and the flowers for regional ID. I would not assume this is a rehilt if it comes from an area where this type of blade is usual.

Aqtai · 16th June 2005, 02:27 PM

I don't know, I tried looking at that writing the other way, and although it looks superficially like Arabic script (which of course is also used in Iran and Afghanistan as well as Turkey before 1920) I can't actually make out letters.

I'll show you what I mean:

I can't make out any of those letters. I wonder if it is an Indian script.

Mark · 16th June 2005, 03:19 PM

The third one is a Thai "krabi." They became popular during and after the reign of King Mongkut (Rama IV, of "The King and I" fame), mid-19th century, though they were probably around before then.

13th June 2005, 10:12 AM	#1
oswin Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 2	Persian Sword and please to tell me My family have this a Persian Sword for a long time, and I don't know that how does my family get it? And I will explain about this Persian Sword : 1. A holder made from a Coral (The holder 's original I think it 's not coral) 2. In the coral holder was decorated by gold copper and silver. 3. In the 2 side of sword was write as some alphabet and symbol. And in the past 300 years ago, my primogenitor came from Astrabadi, Persia, he was name "Sheikh Ahmed", This time is in Ayuthaya period.(I reference from The Ship of Sulaiman and a book record by my family. Please Tell me that you knows something about this Persian Sword. Thank you so much. Attached Images

13th June 2005, 04:23 PM	#4
Oriental-Arms Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Haifa, Israel Posts: 183	May be a Yataghan Blade?? The second sword is definitely a Sailaba/Sossun Pata, as correctly stated by Jens. The first one, I am afraid is a re-hilted Ottoman Yataghan blade. I rather prefer to think that it is a Yataghan blade and not a Sailaba/Sossun Pata blade as there is no ricasso on it (Which is so common to the Indian blades). I suggest that the inscription is in Arabic letters (up-side down) and that the mark is a maker stamp so very common on Ottoman Yataghans. When where and why it was re-hilted is a mystery I guess.

14th June 2005, 12:39 AM	#5
oswin Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 2	Thank you very for answer to me. That I think the sword is from Persian because my primogenitor came from Astrabadi of Persia. He was a muslim (Shi-a). He was a merchant-condotierri(semi merchant with soldier). He came in Ayuthaya when 300 years ago. In the route from Persia to Ayuthaya, he passed India and I think that he passes Hydarabad too, because Hydarabad was a big city. The possible that he received this sword in India. I think that hilt was repair because it was tumble down. And what is the Sailaba/Sossun Pata and Yataghan? . What is meaning inscription? The mark is a name of factory? Please to explain me. Thank you. Attached Images

14th June 2005, 12:54 AM	#6
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Oswin We have now seen three separate and different swords . Let's discuss one at a time to avoid confusion please . Which one of these swords that you have shown us has the makers stamp and decoration on the blade ?

16th June 2005, 02:27 PM	#9
Aqtai Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Merseyside, UK Posts: 222	I don't know, I tried looking at that writing the other way, and although it looks superficially like Arabic script (which of course is also used in Iran and Afghanistan as well as Turkey before 1920) I can't actually make out letters. I'll show you what I mean: I can't make out any of those letters. I wonder if it is an Indian script. Last edited by Aqtai; 16th June 2005 at 04:36 PM.

13th June 2005, 02:45 PM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Your sword could well be a re-hilted example of one of these : http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...highlight=jens Lovely handle ; almost Japanese in the style of decoration . Black coral that thick is very hard to come by these days .

13th June 2005, 04:01 PM	#3
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Hi Oswin and welcome to the forum. Why do you only comment on the first sword, and not on the second, the one with the Indian hilt? Is the inscription on the blade from the first sword? The inscription looks more like Thai or one of the languages used in that area, the way the hilt is fitted to the blade too, like Rick writes. Is it possible to get better pictures of both swords with details of the inscription(s)? Does the two blades have a T spine? The first sword could very well have been/be a rehilted Sailaba/Sossun Pata, the second one with the Indian hilt surely is a Sailaba/Sossun Pata, but the inscription is a puzzle.

16th June 2005, 10:26 AM	#7
Yannis Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Athens Greece Posts: 479	Oswin Sossun Pata is a sword from India. Exactly the type you have in the second picture that I believe is a scan from a book. Yataghan is an Ottoman sword. It is what you have in the most pictures minus the hilt. The inscription is with Arabic alphabet that it was used in Turkey before 1920. The blade is typical yataghan blade of mid 19th century. I suppose that the person who fixed the new hilt on it had no idea how the yataghan hilt looks or he wanted to have something unique. The third sword looks like from China or Indochina but there are more experts here to say. I hope that this helps.

16th June 2005, 10:58 AM	#8
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	Yeah, the third one looks Vietnamese? The coral handle is interesting. It is an unusual piece of jewelry utilizing the natural shape of the coral; thus I would not read anything ethnic into the handle shape, but would perhaps look to the bolster/ferule (which seems somewhat peculiar and yet somehow familiar) and the flowers for regional ID. I would not assume this is a rehilt if it comes from an area where this type of blade is usual.

16th June 2005, 03:19 PM	#10
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 987	The third one is a Thai "krabi." They became popular during and after the reign of King Mongkut (Rama IV, of "The King and I" fame), mid-19th century, though they were probably around before then.