Cutlass with basket hilt?

kronckew · 1st January 2022, 03:09 PM

Just acquired at auction this shortish sabre/cutlass/hanger with a 31in length overall.

Rather odd (half?) basket hilt with wavey bars.

Not the best picture. Should get the weapon in a little over a week. will provide better pics then.

Anyone have any idea where it may be from or when?

description was just:

An 18th/19thC. sword with leather & brass grip & guard 31 in. long.

David R · 1st January 2022, 04:28 PM

It looks a LOT like one of the American War of Independence blacksmith made sabres, they carried on into the 19th C. as militia swords.

kronckew · 1st January 2022, 06:40 PM

Thanks, David.
That would be cool (And increase it's value considerably

)

Will M · 1st January 2022, 07:57 PM

Has strong French influence, the blade may have been longer.

ulfberth · 1st January 2022, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Will M

Has strong French influence, the blade may have been longer.

You are right ! its a French cavalry troopers sabre, the model is year 1790 the blade would have been around 91 cm.
kind regards
Ulfberth

David R · 1st January 2022, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronckew

Thanks, David.
That would be cool (And increase it's value considerably

)

Fingers crossed!... And a decent prize if it's "just" a French 18th C piece.

kronckew · 2nd January 2022, 12:26 AM

Thanks all.

A lot of American revolutionary swords came from French designs or from damaged & or adapted French swords. I have a french dragoon 4-slot sword with the two sidebars cut off that has provenances from a prominent UK collector's estate to have been modified and used for service in the revolution. This will fit in nicely with it.

(Got them both cheap because no one here knew what they were, but I suspected.)

kronckew · 26th February 2022, 06:41 PM

The sword has arrived a while back, haven't had a chance to do anything besides deactivating rust & oiling it.

Heavy, thick (4mm) black patinated brass guard. sword weighs 858 grams, 1.89 lb.

Grip is neatly wrapped and sewn in a shiney leather. No sign it was ever wrapped in twisted wire. Blade is 25 in. (63cm) long, 1.75 in. (4.45cm)at the grip, almost 9mm (0.357 in.) thick there, distal tapering down smoothly to about 1mm. (0.04 in.) at the tip, which is just forward of the end of the central fuller. Point is very slightly rounded but still pointy enough. Blade spine shows signs of having been bent and straightened, but is back into acceptable limits. Brass Pommel is peened over an eye-shaped (lenticular) brass keeper.

Blade is quite sharp, has a few slight nicks. No discernable markings anywhere. Guard is heavy enough to rotate the sword in the hand if you are not gripping it tightly, which can ruin edge alignment.

American Revolutionary acquisition & rework?

M ELEY · 27th February 2022, 08:24 AM

Nice find, Wayne! Although we have no provenace for it being a naval 'one off', it's important to remember that all manner of swords went to sea, that they were often intentionally shortened in length to accomodate tight quarters and that brass-hilted swords were favored due to their resistance to rusting/sea air. So, who knows!? A nice rugged piece either way-

kronckew · 27th February 2022, 08:59 PM

Thanks, all. 👍👌😎

1st January 2022, 03:09 PM	#1
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,184	Cutlass with basket hilt? Just acquired at auction this shortish sabre/cutlass/hanger with a 31in length overall. Rather odd (half?) basket hilt with wavey bars. Not the best picture. Should get the weapon in a little over a week. will provide better pics then. Anyone have any idea where it may be from or when? description was just: An 18th/19thC. sword with leather & brass grip & guard 31 in. long. Attached Images

26th February 2022, 06:41 PM	#8
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,184	The sword has arrived a while back, haven't had a chance to do anything besides deactivating rust & oiling it. Heavy, thick (4mm) black patinated brass guard. sword weighs 858 grams, 1.89 lb. Grip is neatly wrapped and sewn in a shiney leather. No sign it was ever wrapped in twisted wire. Blade is 25 in. (63cm) long, 1.75 in. (4.45cm)at the grip, almost 9mm (0.357 in.) thick there, distal tapering down smoothly to about 1mm. (0.04 in.) at the tip, which is just forward of the end of the central fuller. Point is very slightly rounded but still pointy enough. Blade spine shows signs of having been bent and straightened, but is back into acceptable limits. Brass Pommel is peened over an eye-shaped (lenticular) brass keeper. Blade is quite sharp, has a few slight nicks. No discernable markings anywhere. Guard is heavy enough to rotate the sword in the hand if you are not gripping it tightly, which can ruin edge alignment. American Revolutionary acquisition & rework? Last edited by kronckew; 26th February 2022 at 06:52 PM.

1st January 2022, 04:28 PM	#2
David R Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,079	It looks a LOT like one of the American War of Independence blacksmith made sabres, they carried on into the 19th C. as militia swords.

1st January 2022, 06:40 PM	#3
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,184	Thanks, David. That would be cool (And increase it's value considerably )

1st January 2022, 07:57 PM	#4
Will M Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: In the wee woods north of Napanee Ontario Posts: 391	Has strong French influence, the blade may have been longer.

2nd January 2022, 12:26 AM	#7
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,184	Thanks all. A lot of American revolutionary swords came from French designs or from damaged & or adapted French swords. I have a french dragoon 4-slot sword with the two sidebars cut off that has provenances from a prominent UK collector's estate to have been modified and used for service in the revolution. This will fit in nicely with it. (Got them both cheap because no one here knew what they were, but I suspected.)

27th February 2022, 08:24 AM	#9
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,097	Nice find, Wayne! Although we have no provenace for it being a naval 'one off', it's important to remember that all manner of swords went to sea, that they were often intentionally shortened in length to accomodate tight quarters and that brass-hilted swords were favored due to their resistance to rusting/sea air. So, who knows!? A nice rugged piece either way-

27th February 2022, 08:59 PM	#10
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,184	Thanks, all. 👍👌😎