Folding knife, origin opinions please

[Kmaddock]

Hi All,

I just purchased what I thought was a Spanish Navaja folding knife, but now I am unsure? I just bought cos I like it so no worries if origin is somewhere else.

Lots of nice features,
horn handle, brass inlay on the black of the handle, silver design in steel/silver pins in the handle, brass inlay in the blade, Marking on the blade (which looks like a fish to me) and a reinforced tip.

overall V light in construction so I do not think it is a working knife but blade is still sharp enough

So any idea as to what it might be and approx age would be great. Overall length 21 cm with a blade of 9.5 cm

regards to all

Ken


PS purchased in Ireland and no back story

[Kmaddock]

Hi All


I was holding the knife last night and it occurred to me that when holding the knife open (there is no lock) my thumb naturally rests on the "fish like area" and this would be a convenient way to hold the blade open.

Thanks all

REgards

Ken

[fernando]

Come on Gentlemen, not a single opinion about this beautiful piece ?

[Richard G]

Personally, I think something a bit 'glitzier' is needed to match those fingernails.

[Kmaddock]

Originally Posted by Richard G

Personally, I think something a bit 'glitzier' is needed to match those fingernails.

Richard don't worry about my wife and the bling,

I will not show her your comment as she does OK enough as is

Cheers,

Ken

[Interested Party]

Originally Posted by Kmaddock

Hi All


I was holding the knife last night and it occurred to me that when holding the knife open (there is no lock) my thumb naturally rests on the "fish like area" and this would be a convenient way to hold the blade open.

My work knife for agriculture is springless as well. I put a couple drops of water on the end with the blade's pivot point most mornings to help keep the friction adjusted and prevent it from opening and closing accidently. Horn would render that technique more difficult. One advantage of the curved horn handle is that if it opens in your pocket a bit it is harder to slice your hand (I have done that with an Opinel) which is why I only carry bill style knives of that lock design now.

I took a cursory glance of Medrano's Reflexiones sobre la navaja antigigua and came up empty handed. The only fish I found was the "Pez Judio" which wasn't close. I attached a list of German makers numbers 52 & 48 being the closest I found to yours, but not it exactly. Yours is definitely a stamp not a carving. There are some manuscript facsimiles which I didn't get through. The problem I saw while reading descriptions of marks is does this mark represent a fish? It also is close to the "vessel" of the Islamic world. I know, it most likely isn't, but it is a good example to illustrate my point.

It is a pretty piece. It is interesting that with all the decoration it is a penny knife (springless). This makes me wonder if it was made by a village smith who didn't want to bother with the troubles of making a spring and/or a lock, and therefore whose mark was less likely to be recorded? To me being a penny knife means that it was made as a pure tool or a decoration, not a weapon.

[Chris Evans]

Hi Ken,

I looked through all my books, including Forton's, trying to identify the ccutler's mark, all to no avail. Also, I couldn't find one quite like it. My gut feeling is that it is not Spanish.

We have to remember that "navajas" and variations thereof were made widely not only in Europe but also as afar as India.

Cheers
Chris

[Raf]

Originally Posted by Kmaddock

Richard don't worry about my wife and the bling,

I will not show her your comment as she does OK enough as is

Cheers,

Ken

?

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Chris Evans

... My gut feeling is that it is not Spanish ...

I am with you Chris; too many details to exclude such probability. That blade tip is perfectly blunt. Meaning that this knife is exclusively made to only cut with its edge, no chance for it to pierce; there ought to be a purpose to be so. As for the precious decoration, well ... no comments .

[Raf]

Originally Posted by fernando

I am with you Chris; too many details to exclude such probability. That blade tip is perfectly blunt. Meaning that this knife is exclusively made to only cut with its edge, no chance for it to pierce; there ought to be a purpose to be so. As for the precious decoration, well ... no comments .

Think . 4 crosses? symbol of fish ?

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Raf

Think . 4 crosses? symbol of fish ?

What ... a sports fish knife ?.

[Raf]

The images I posted were from the Science Museum Study group . Described as circumcision knives or for general surgery.Early nineteenth century. Made sense to me if not to anyone else .

[fernando]

On a benefit of the doubt basis, i googled on circumcision knives. Amazing how zillions of them show up ... and in styles for all tastes.
Still i don't subscribe the thesis that Ken's knife is one of them. If i am wrong, you may tie me to the whipping post .

[Kmaddock]

Thanks all for your considered opinions,

The tip is not completely blunt and it would pierce skin with a gentle amount of force behind it.

It is a nice piece and I will put it down to early to mid 1800's, It is not what I collect but I enjoy it all the same and happy to have it in my collection.

Regards all,

Ken

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Kmaddock

... It is not what I collect but I enjoy it all the same ...

And if you don't ... just tell .

[Lee]

Personally, I consider an earlier Spanish Navaja as plausible. The work on the brass cap, the brass filled 'dots' on the scales and the brass washer around the pivot all resemble features of my battered old Spanish Navaja. The blunted tip would seem to make sense should it open partially in the pocket.

Old post with pictures of mine.

Significance of rounded point.

Wherever it is from, I also really do like your knife.

[Interested Party]

Could the tip serve as a marl spike for small cord such as old fishing lines?

[Kmaddock]

Originally Posted by Interested Party

Could the tip serve as a marl spike for small cord such as old fishing lines?

It is a very light knife overall,
Not much leverage could be applier to the tip, as such I do not think it is a marlin spike.

Thanks all for interest.
Ken