strange shuang jian

josh stout · 2nd May 2007, 06:04 PM

I bought these a while ago, and just thought they were 19th c in mediocre condition but interesting because the style seemed Ming.

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j6...duation346.jpg

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j6...duation347.jpg

Then I started to wonder about aspects of the decoration that look Tibetan. The monster face with the big nose is reminiscent of the jian shown in this exhibit: (http://asianart.com/exhibitions/tibet-armor/14.html). Also the gold leaf with red overpainting is a Tibetan trait. However, the monster on my jian has the character "wang" on its forehead, which tends to put it back in the realm of Chinese things. That was until someone pointed out that the monster was upside down with the mouth by the handle instead of the blade. This is supposedly a position never seen on Chinese swords, but often found on Vietnamese pieces. They speculated that the jian might be from the Yi minority who are supposedly influenced by Vietnamese styles. What do you think? I have a couple of Yi things, and I have not seen Vietnamese influences in them, just Tibetan and Chinese. Can anybody point me in the direction of Vietnamese influences on Yi iconography, or propose other explanations for these jian?
Thanks,
Josh

Tim Simmons · 2nd May 2007, 06:17 PM

Very interesting. I really know nothing. I would very much like to see pictures of the whole thing, a scabbard?

josh stout · 2nd May 2007, 06:56 PM

Some more pictures:

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j6...duation343.jpg

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j6...duation344.jpg

The scabbard does not match the blades stylistically and is probably later than the blades. I will try and get some photos.
Josh

2nd May 2007, 06:04 PM	#1
josh stout Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 407	strange shuang jian I bought these a while ago, and just thought they were 19th c in mediocre condition but interesting because the style seemed Ming. http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j6...duation346.jpg http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j6...duation347.jpg Then I started to wonder about aspects of the decoration that look Tibetan. The monster face with the big nose is reminiscent of the jian shown in this exhibit: (http://asianart.com/exhibitions/tibet-armor/14.html). Also the gold leaf with red overpainting is a Tibetan trait. However, the monster on my jian has the character "wang" on its forehead, which tends to put it back in the realm of Chinese things. That was until someone pointed out that the monster was upside down with the mouth by the handle instead of the blade. This is supposedly a position never seen on Chinese swords, but often found on Vietnamese pieces. They speculated that the jian might be from the Yi minority who are supposedly influenced by Vietnamese styles. What do you think? I have a couple of Yi things, and I have not seen Vietnamese influences in them, just Tibetan and Chinese. Can anybody point me in the direction of Vietnamese influences on Yi iconography, or propose other explanations for these jian? Thanks, Josh

2nd May 2007, 06:17 PM	#2
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,806	Very interesting. I really know nothing. I would very much like to see pictures of the whole thing, a scabbard?

2nd May 2007, 06:56 PM	#3
josh stout Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 407	Some more pictures: http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j6...duation343.jpg http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j6...duation344.jpg The scabbard does not match the blades stylistically and is probably later than the blades. I will try and get some photos. Josh