Keraton and the wearing of weapons

Gavin Nugent · 25th August 2022, 07:47 AM

I've a rather broad and general questions.

The wearing of functional weapons within a Royal Palace.

Apart from keris within attire, were more functional weapons like the Pedang Lurus and spears present.

Who was permitted to carry such things?

Was there a certain level of visual appeal/portrayed status that was required?

With thanks

Gavin

A. G. Maisey · 25th August 2022, 09:16 AM

I do not know precise etiquette way, way back, nor for every kraton,but thinking in terms of second half 19th century through to today, and the Surakarta Karaton, swords, ie, pedang, were legitimate for certain people depending on rank & circumstance.

Tombak, ie, spears were used by guards.

Wedung were required dress for members of the court who were bupati (regent) and above. The wearing of the wedung symbolised the willingness of the wearer to cut a way through the jungle for his (or her) lord. Yes, women of higher rank were also required to wear them.

The "functionality" of the keris as a weapon has been questioned for many years, there were some quite heated debates about this between British keris scholars. Its a bit of a pointless argument really, it comes down to the proficiency of the user. The keris, used by a trained practitioner is just as efficient as any other edged weapon.

Gavin Nugent · 26th August 2022, 01:59 AM

Thank you Alan.

The insights are appreciated.

The Wedung, I did not know this. I shall look at them in a different light now.

The keris weapon debate... face off a scholar against a silat practitioner, keris vs keris, wearing only a sarong... I am sure opinions may then differ... but no one wants to play that game for some reason...

With thanks

Gavin

A. G. Maisey · 26th August 2022, 08:03 AM

Gavin, in respect of physical confrontations, every scholar I have ever known has been a committed disciple of Indiana Jones.

On the other hand, face off a practitioner of any of the forms of silat against a practitioner of Kuntao --- even an 80 odd year old female one with arthritis --- now, that could be quite enlightening.

There was a very solid reason why the Dutch employed Chinese as their overseers and body guards.

The keris : weapon debate occurred in the era of the old British empire. British sailors seemed to have a rather casual attitude towards the peoples of SE Asia and their ability as brawlers. People like Gardner, Hill, Woolley, Keith & etc became a little heated in some of their discussions.

25th August 2022, 07:47 AM	#1
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Keraton and the wearing of weapons I've a rather broad and general questions. The wearing of functional weapons within a Royal Palace. Apart from keris within attire, were more functional weapons like the Pedang Lurus and spears present. Who was permitted to carry such things? Was there a certain level of visual appeal/portrayed status that was required? With thanks Gavin

25th August 2022, 09:16 AM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,892	I do not know precise etiquette way, way back, nor for every kraton,but thinking in terms of second half 19th century through to today, and the Surakarta Karaton, swords, ie, pedang, were legitimate for certain people depending on rank & circumstance. Tombak, ie, spears were used by guards. Wedung were required dress for members of the court who were bupati (regent) and above. The wearing of the wedung symbolised the willingness of the wearer to cut a way through the jungle for his (or her) lord. Yes, women of higher rank were also required to wear them. The "functionality" of the keris as a weapon has been questioned for many years, there were some quite heated debates about this between British keris scholars. Its a bit of a pointless argument really, it comes down to the proficiency of the user. The keris, used by a trained practitioner is just as efficient as any other edged weapon.

26th August 2022, 01:59 AM	#3
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Thank you Alan. The insights are appreciated. The Wedung, I did not know this. I shall look at them in a different light now. The keris weapon debate... face off a scholar against a silat practitioner, keris vs keris, wearing only a sarong... I am sure opinions may then differ... but no one wants to play that game for some reason... With thanks Gavin

26th August 2022, 08:03 AM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,892	Gavin, in respect of physical confrontations, every scholar I have ever known has been a committed disciple of Indiana Jones. On the other hand, face off a practitioner of any of the forms of silat against a practitioner of Kuntao --- even an 80 odd year old female one with arthritis --- now, that could be quite enlightening. There was a very solid reason why the Dutch employed Chinese as their overseers and body guards. The keris : weapon debate occurred in the era of the old British empire. British sailors seemed to have a rather casual attitude towards the peoples of SE Asia and their ability as brawlers. People like Gardner, Hill, Woolley, Keith & etc became a little heated in some of their discussions.