metal weapons and tools in the pacific

[ausjulius]

this has interested me for some time,
i am interested in the metalic weapons and tools, of the pacific, mostly the weapons,

so far i've seen very few metal weapons from this area,
has anyone any information or pictures,

ive read the hawaiians developed iron working very quickly and were after afew years after contact producing forged iron and steel products in a european style,, did they make weapons of their own style or did they purchase any of these they needed from traders.

is micronesia in the areas with spanish contact, they had regional styles of their own and used a european technique to forge iron tools.
as the chomorro knives are a good sxsample, seems in their costume and tools is a strong mexican influence.. and actualy little or no philipino influence,, although alot of the population seem to be decended from philipinos brought there over time..
i guess alot more were then decended from mexicans, and also spanish
and no doubt the native population would make up a large part of the population , so there is no doubt some of their native concepts intertwined in their metal working ,

but what other area aside from guam has any native inron weapons in the pacific,

ive seen in a book on tonga many years ago some images for a public event in the 1960s ,, there was shown some men of higher rank in trandional dress with traditional weapons and in one image a man caw brandishing a sword-like item , the handle being about 45cm long and the blade about 6o cm long the weapon ending in a tip curling like a fern leaf tip when it is young,, the handle was wrapped with cane bands and was pinned on,,

it did not look like it was made of a commercial trade item but localy made,

ive also seen some modern made weapons from west papua,, they were looking like long double edged swords with flaired blades and carved wooden handles and sheaths,,
they looked recent.. dont know where they were from but that they were west papuan , they were rather odd proably some single individual who had learned blacksmithing and had decided to make some weapons i guess.

ive also seen the odd crude made weapons such as ground down bits of iron and hinges used as knives or spears, but these are kust oppertunistic items from scavanged iron and are applied in the way the stone would normaly be used,,

anyone have any information on this area??

[Clubs & Arrows]

Hello Ausjulius,
The Samoans had the Nifo Oti which was a long rectangular blade with a small hook curling away from the top edge. You can find it in:
Early Photography - Tonga and Samoa 1855 - 1900 by Kurt During, and in the book Samoan Art and Artists by Sean Mallon. The Samoans fought with these during the civil wars during the mid to late 19th century.
Now, the same type of piece has the blade set on fire and is danced with at Polynesian themed events.

As far as Papuan blades, I'm afraid that I can't help.

Best regards,
Joe

[ausjulius]

Originally Posted by Clubs & Arrows

Hello Ausjulius,
The Samoans had the Nifo Oti which was a long rectangular blade with a small hook curling away from the top edge. You can find it in:
Early Photography - Tonga and Samoa 1855 - 1900 by Kurt During, and in the book Samoan Art and Artists by Sean Mallon. The Samoans fought with these during the civil wars during the mid to late 19th century.
Now, the same type of piece has the blade set on fire and is danced with at Polynesian themed events.

As far as Papuan blades, I'm afraid that I can't help.

Best regards,
Joe

hi thanks yes the tongan one i sa was very much like that only longer blade and handle and more narrow , the hook at the back was moe hooked,.. but id say the weapon was the same,, maybe the tongans used the same tool? or maybe the item was takento tonga??? as the missionaries in the 19th centuary traveled about about i guess that is how,, unless the image was from samoa and was miss quoted as a image of tonga..

thanks for the info,,
does anyone have an exsample of these weapons?

how well was the work in them? and were they well hardened,? what was the steel composition?

[Clubs & Arrows]

Here are some pics of a pair that I purchased a while back. These were collected by a Mormon Missionary that was in Samoa during 1929 and 1930. The blades are British steel. One is marked with a Boar's head over the words "Endure / Josh Beal & Sons / Best Cast Steel / Sheffield", and the other appears to be Birmingham / England, but I can't make out what's stamped above it.

The longer of the two is just under 39" overall in length, with 19 5/8" of the total being the blade. The second is 37 1/2" overall in length, with 20 1/4" of the total being the blade. The steel blades are 1/8" in thickness. The coconut fiber cord is pretty unraveled, but hanging on.

[Tim Simmons]

Wow this is What do you make of this beautiful piece, I am not sure any more?

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=razor

[ausjulius]

wow!!!, nice.. seems those were british made blades,,so i guess there was enougth demand for them to produce them i a quantity,, has anyone got any of the clubs these weapons were based on?

[ausjulius]

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

Wow this is What do you make of this beautiful piece, I am not sure any more?

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=razor

yes the curl on that one looks much more like the tongan weapon i saw,, but that choppers handle and such look more to be african it i were to guess..

[Tim Simmons]

My thoughts were also African. It was sold as being from the south seas, I have shown it to other collectors that thought the handle was similar to south seas work. Other African collectors say they have not seen anything like it. I based my African origin on the zig-zag paterns on the steel ferrle only because I have a South Sudan spear with similar work on the socket part of the blade.
In all seriousness these patern forms are very much universal for humans the world over. I find the similarity in form most interesting. I am also very inspired by the photo of the Tongan/Samoan dignitary posing with the weapon. My example is a very pretty item much time has been spent on its construction. I now really do wonder about the possibility of this being a prestige item from the South Seas?

This swan is from Sweden I believe, so I would not rule out the decoration which is indeed common on many carved items from the South Seas?


Also as in this Fijian? bowl which I have been encouraged to believe is early 20th century, it has seen use anyway? and the flash is on.


Yes it has three legs.

[Tim Simmons]

Look here-

http://webprojects.prm.ox.ac.uk/arms...ms/1928.59.21/

I really do think Samoan. My example is very sharp so it could be a bush knife but it is also very beautiful so I doubt that. Are these always a standard size? I also doubt that.

[Clubs & Arrows]

The dark wooden dish is Fijian. I've seen them listed as a Priest's Oil Dish and as a Priest's Inspirational Kava Dish. Does it have three tiny legs underneath?

[ausjulius]

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

Look here-

http://webprojects.prm.ox.ac.uk/arms...ms/1928.59.21/

I really do think Samoan. My example is very sharp so it could be a bush knife but it is also very beautiful so I doubt that. Are these always a standard size? I also doubt that.

ahhrr, but the description was very very fantaciful,, :s,, these things are no billhoook that has ever exsisted, but are a steel rendering of a traditional knife-club,

i wounder if the cunning trader frist imported iron bladed weapons looking like the club or if the natives produced these first and they were then produce dinen mass in europe?

[fearn]

Hi Ausjulius,

In an old publication from the Bishop Museum, there was the story of the Hawaiians cold-forging nails from driftwood and using these for spikes, weaponry, and tools. This was before they were contacted, although I have no idea whose ships were being wrecked and washing up on Hawaii.

Don't know if this is true, but I do know that the Eskimos treated meteoric iron the same way, so it's possible.

What I'd say, then, is if anyone can produce a cold forged bit of iron, it actually might be part of an indigenous tradition.

F

[Berkley]

The Fijian wooden war club shown here appears to have some relationship to the objects under discussion.

[ausjulius]

Originally Posted by fearn

Hi Ausjulius,

In an old publication from the Bishop Museum, there was the story of the Hawaiians cold-forging nails from driftwood and using these for spikes, weaponry, and tools. This was before they were contacted, although I have no idea whose ships were being wrecked and washing up on Hawaii.

Don't know if this is true, but I do know that the Eskimos treated meteoric iron the same way, so it's possible.

What I'd say, then, is if anyone can produce a cold forged bit of iron, it actually might be part of an indigenous tradition.

F

inuit and indians on the west of canada and alaska had a well developed inderstanding of working with metals before contact.. ive a good collection of images,,, sime items or a good deal of antiquity..
the inuit has quite large copper weapons , long daggers and knives some over a foot in blade lenght..
but they had access to these metals,,...

the people of the pacific did not... so it means little that they could use a nail to make a hook,, in papua new guine gold for exsample was known,,,,,,, but nothing was made of it.. but they had access to it,
the pacific islanders knew of metals for shure , they have in their languages words for these items,, and understood iron and copper at first contact... but they had no way of obtaining it on demand..
unlike the inuit who woudl as it exsisted in his area of habitation,,
and the new guinean,,
the inuit put copper and iron to use but the new guinean did not put gold to use.. ( in most languages in PNG and the solomons there is some work for gold.. ans it occours in these areas in nugget form)

so the thing is
1,, to have a desire for and knowledge of the material,
2 , to be able to procure it on demand,
in the pacific the 1st is true , aspecialy in the polonesian areas , and secound is not......

so i wounder what was the weapons of iron th produced in larger islands , fiji,, for exsample. .. did they make iron weapons of their own.. and new zealand,i wounder, as the maori had alot of contact.. did they develop and iron knives or tools unique to them.. or did they just take the european weapons and produce the in the same syle. i know that most pa's would maintain at least one more skilled europeans even before the new zealand colonial period, and these individuials were a prized possession by a tribe and almost required to maintain any prestiege ,
much of these men were traders ,carpenters or blacksmiths.. ect ect... and shurly as with the slow supplie of trade goods and the limited range these folk manifactured to order items they thought the maori woudl desire or were requested to make.. and no doubt their skills were partialy passed on to the natives..

i wounder was there any specific maori iron works then???





....

[Tim Simmons]

Why not? especially in the later part of the 19th century? Some of the Anerican indian metal weapons are the most plain beautiful you are every likely to see.

[ausjulius]

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

Why not? especially in the later part of the 19th century? Some of the Anerican indian metal weapons are the most plain beautiful you are every likely to see.

indeed .. aspecialy the tlingit daggers,, they are realy quite attractive items...

so , aside from samoa.. is there any other known pacific iron weapons of native design????......

[Tim Simmons]

It is possible that the knife I have may be associated with rather unpleasant pracitises. Which gives an added fresson.

[Tim Simmons]

I do not want to over cook the meat here, and I know this info is concerned with Fiji but we do know that some special tools and implements are associated with these activities. The new materials and technology spread through the region. This is rather wordy but well worth the effort. Scroll to page 13 subtitle cutmarks, read metal implements. .

http://www.stanford.edu/~degusta/Hom...%201999.pdfnts.

the first link did not seem to work

http://www.stanford.edu/~degusta/Hom...sta%201999.pdf

[VANDOO]

MOST OF WHAT WE CONSIDER OCEANIC SOCIETYS WERE STONE AGE IN THE PRECONTACT DAYS. THE HIGH ISLANDS HAD STONE ( VARIOUS FORMS OF LAVA, BASALT BEING THE ONE HEAVY ENOUGH AND STRONG ENOUGH TO FORM A HAMMER OR ADZ, THE OTHER FORMS WERE SUITABLE FOR GRINDING SOFT FOODS, ECT OR AS ABRASIVES FOR SHAPEING OR FINISHING WOOD, SHELL OR BONE. THE LOW ISLANDS HAD NO ROCK AND LIMITED TYPES OF PLANT MATERIALS. HERE BONE, CORAL AND SHELL WAS USED IN PLACE OF ROCK SOME ROCK MAY HAVE BEEN OBTAINED FROM HIGH ISLANDS DURING VOYAGES OR TRADE.
THIS WOULD HAVE MADE IRON WORKING VERY DIFFICULT EVEN IF IRON ORE WAS AVAILABLE. A PIECE OF FOUND IRON COULD HAVE BEEN POUNDED WITH ROCKS AND WORN DOWN BY HAND GRINDING ON A ROCK TO MAKE SOMETHING. MOST OF THE IRON TOOLS CAME TO THE ISLANDS THRU TRADERS ONE OF THE MOST FAVORED BEING A HATCHET OR SMALL AX HEAD. THE AX HEADS DID NOT TAKE UP MUCH ROOM AND WERE IN BIG DEMAND AS THEY COULD BE USED AS A TOOL MAKEING TREE CHOPPING A LOT EASIER AND ALSO MADE A DANDY WEAPON. THEY WERE MOSTLY OUTFITTED WITH HANDLES BY THE TRIBESMAN AND WERE USED ON MOST ISLANDS AS WELL AS IN THE AMERICAS WHERE THEY WERE CALLED TOMMAHAWKS. OFTEN LATER EXAMPLES BECAME MORE ORNATE AS THEY WERE DESIRABLE AS A PRESTIEGE ITEM NOT JUST A TOOL.
THE SAMOAN KNIFE WAS PATTERENED AFTER A WOODEN CLUB DISTINTIVE TO SAMOA IT MAY HAVE BEEN SPECIFICALLY MADE FOR TRADE TO THOSE ISLANDS AND SHAPED ACCORDINGLY BECAUSE THAT FORM HAD CEREMONIAL OR PRESTIGE MEANING. I CAN'T THINK OF ANY OTHER WOODEN CLUB THAT WAS REPLICATED IN STEEL FOR TRADE PURPOSES SO PERHAPS THE SAMOAN CLUB/KNIFE IS UNIQUE IN THAT REGARD.
SEE EXAMPLE OF A COMMON OCEANIC TRADE AX FORM

[Tim Simmons]

This book is well worth getting { Pacific Encounters, art & divinity in Polynesia 1760-1860, available from amazon pbk} as it mentions the use of metal from the very first European and whaler visits to Polynesia. Mention is made that many of the finest pieces of sculpture collected by these early voyages were carved with metal trade tools. There are weapons in this book but all made of wood as the focus is on the earliest period. Other publications do highlight the observances of the use of the forge in Polynesia and further afield. Cpt Cook had to issuse an order of no iron trade because ships nails were in great demand. In the coming years the Islanders were able to demand what trade items they wanted. I see no reason to not believe that between visits the necessity to forge metal did not arise especially as these ports of call were so important for resupply and repairs? It is most curious that publications on the arts of Polynesia do not include metalwork. I might suggest this is because it is not what the buying public expect. Compared to the standard ideas of discovering Polynesia with its wonderful sculpture, and following colonisation, metalwork is too advanced and a little dull.

[Tim Simmons]

This is cool.
http://www.heretical.com/cannibal/polynesi.html

If you look closely at the knife I have in the link you can see that it is fashioned largely by grinding into shape from a European blade. The grinding has been done with hand held stones rather than a rotating grind stone. Some heat must have been applied to create the roll at the tip but you would not need a great force of heat to do that. Also it is worth noting that the ferrel part is just bent into shape. As in the post the knife was originally shown I believe this is an extemely unusual item. The recent posts on this topic inspired me to purchase from Amazon the book {Exploration & Exchange, a south seas anthology 1680-1900, the university of Chicago press} which did force me to give the early missionaries just a little amount of respect. It cannot have been much fun having human body parts tossed into your compound even if your impossition was unwelcome.

[Tim Simmons]

This is quite interesting?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...ethodists.html

[elv]

I've done a bit of a study on photos that have been publicly available of Nifo'Oti (I've sighted eight early Nifo'Oti) and most of the early examples were manufactured by Joseph Beal & Sons in Sheffield. Some had no markings so they gave no clue to their origin. It is unclear exactly when they were exported to Samoa. Several of the Joseph Beal & Sons blades have different markings - indicating different shipments.

Below is a compilation I've made of the markings. I've included the logo of the websites where they were found. It would be interesting to hear from collectors that have a Nifo'Oti that I don't have a photo of yet.

While there is no doubt these Nifo'Oti (translated Tooth cutter and modelled on pre-european contact wooden Nifo'Oti) were used for warfare - they were primarily used as an agricultural and multi-purpose tool. Being a prized possession of the chiefs and higher class. This is also indicated by the regular display of Nifo'Oti rather than other weapons in early photographs.

Originally Posted by Clubs & Arrows

Here are some pics of a pair that I purchased a while back. These were collected by a Mormon Missionary that was in Samoa during 1929 and 1930. The blades are British steel. One is marked with a Boar's head over the words "Endure / Josh Beal & Sons / Best Cast Steel / Sheffield", and the other appears to be Birmingham / England, but I can't make out what's stamped above it.

The longer of the two is just under 39" overall in length, with 19 5/8" of the total being the blade. The second is 37 1/2" overall in length, with 20 1/4" of the total being the blade. The steel blades are 1/8" in thickness. The coconut fiber cord is pretty unraveled, but hanging on.