Javanees Keris options please

Patje1970 · 17th May 2020, 02:41 PM

Hi all,

Please options about pamor, possible age. My first idea was pamor Ulur Lulut. Dapur Brojol

question about the mendak, is it possible to identify the little stones, based on the photo's ? or is it glass?

David · 17th May 2020, 06:00 PM

Maybe. To be honest pamor identification is not my strongest suit. Could be Bendo Sagodo though.
Given the type of setting used and the over all quality of the mendak itself i would tend to think these "stones" are more likely glass. But i don't really know of any way to properly identify gemstones through internet photos. The only way to be sure about what these are would be to bring them into a jeweler and have them take a closer look. I've done this before and in most cases jewelers are quite interested seeing something as unusual as this in their day-to-day business, especially if they do indeed turn out to be gemstones as opposed to glass or paste. I've never been charged for such an assessment. Can't guarantee you will have the same luck, of course.

A. G. Maisey · 17th May 2020, 11:24 PM

Blade is Madura, not before mid-1980's. bendo sagodo. It is not really a perfect rendition of BS, and there are other names that people could perhaps favour more, but I'd call it BS at any time, simply because that name is the most easily recognised.

The wrongko & pendok are both old. Hilt might be too, but I cannot see it well enough to give an opinion.

I think the stones in the mendak are what we call "American diamonds" = cubic zirconia. In a photo it is not possible to catch the light and judge the way that the light behaves, so I cannot be certain, but the regularity of the cut indicates cubics. The traditional stones are either yakut or intan and they are rose cut, yakut is rock crystal, intan is low grade diamond. If the material is diamond, but it is cut in a regular way, it is berlian.

I cannot recall ever having seen ordinary glass used in a Javanese mendak. To test for cubics turn the stones at an angle to the light, the way in which the light comes off the stone should look like a diamond.

The light that comes off either berlian or intan has a bluish tint to it, the light of cubics is like the white light that comes off most diamonds in the Western World.

If you use a loupe to look at an old berlian or intan, a stone that is in something that might be 100 years old and has been worn regularly, you will usually see that the edges of the cut are still sharp and undamaged, they might have chip or two, but they will not be bruised and made dull.Old glass will have dull edges to the cut, so will yakut. Cubics have not been around long enough to judge in this way.

Patje1970 · 18th May 2020, 11:53 AM

Thanks for the information

regards Patrick

17th May 2020, 02:41 PM	#1
Patje1970 Member Join Date: Jun 2018 Posts: 51	Javanees Keris options please Hi all, Please options about pamor, possible age. My first idea was pamor Ulur Lulut. Dapur Brojol question about the mendak, is it possible to identify the little stones, based on the photo's ? or is it glass? Attached Images

17th May 2020, 11:24 PM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,898	Blade is Madura, not before mid-1980's. bendo sagodo. It is not really a perfect rendition of BS, and there are other names that people could perhaps favour more, but I'd call it BS at any time, simply because that name is the most easily recognised. The wrongko & pendok are both old. Hilt might be too, but I cannot see it well enough to give an opinion. I think the stones in the mendak are what we call "American diamonds" = cubic zirconia. In a photo it is not possible to catch the light and judge the way that the light behaves, so I cannot be certain, but the regularity of the cut indicates cubics. The traditional stones are either yakut or intan and they are rose cut, yakut is rock crystal, intan is low grade diamond. If the material is diamond, but it is cut in a regular way, it is berlian. I cannot recall ever having seen ordinary glass used in a Javanese mendak. To test for cubics turn the stones at an angle to the light, the way in which the light comes off the stone should look like a diamond. The light that comes off either berlian or intan has a bluish tint to it, the light of cubics is like the white light that comes off most diamonds in the Western World. If you use a loupe to look at an old berlian or intan, a stone that is in something that might be 100 years old and has been worn regularly, you will usually see that the edges of the cut are still sharp and undamaged, they might have chip or two, but they will not be bruised and made dull.Old glass will have dull edges to the cut, so will yakut. Cubics have not been around long enough to judge in this way. Last edited by A. G. Maisey; 17th May 2020 at 11:43 PM.

17th May 2020, 06:00 PM	#2
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,130	Maybe. To be honest pamor identification is not my strongest suit. Could be Bendo Sagodo though. Given the type of setting used and the over all quality of the mendak itself i would tend to think these "stones" are more likely glass. But i don't really know of any way to properly identify gemstones through internet photos. The only way to be sure about what these are would be to bring them into a jeweler and have them take a closer look. I've done this before and in most cases jewelers are quite interested seeing something as unusual as this in their day-to-day business, especially if they do indeed turn out to be gemstones as opposed to glass or paste. I've never been charged for such an assessment. Can't guarantee you will have the same luck, of course.

18th May 2020, 11:53 AM	#4
Patje1970 Member Join Date: Jun 2018 Posts: 51	Thanks for the information regards Patrick