Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Ethnographic Weapons
FAQ Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 28th December 2007, 04:55 AM   #1
Jim McDougall
Arms Historian
 
Jim McDougall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 9,957
Default Pickaxes of the Thuggee

A short time ago in the 'unusual katar' thread, a five bladed katar was posted, and there was mention of the cult known as the 'thuggee'.This dreaded cult preyed upon travellers as they carried out robbing and murders according to 'ritual' and worship of the Hindu goddess Kali (to them she was known as Bhowanee). While the cults origins are vague, and extend to early times, they were little known until thier depradations caught the attention of occupying British forces about the end of the 18th century.

A primary instrument in these 'rituals' was to bury the bodies of the victim, using a ritually consecrated pickaxe, which became virtually a hallmark of this strange cult. As far as I know, none of these pickaxes have ever been seen or illustrated, and I have only vague recollection of the scene in "Gunga Din" where the British commander held an axe and pronounced that it was a 'thuggee' axe. Naturally there is little hope for even remote accuracy from a movie scene, but it certainly aroused my curiosity.

I am hoping that perhaps someone might have thoughts on what one of these carefully fashioned pickaxes might have looked like. The narratives do not tell particulars in shape or dimension, however they do detail the methods in which these were received and carried, and that a great deal of ceremony surrounded them. One item noted that seven red spots were to be placed on the axe, from 'head to point'.

Best regards,
Jim
Jim McDougall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th December 2007, 06:26 AM   #2
Jim McDougall
Arms Historian
 
Jim McDougall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 9,957
Default

So I continued to do some further research, and discovered some information that some might find interesting.

"...and the deep grave from which they dug them with thier sharp busy claws bore marks of the mystic pickaxe of the thuggee:.
from " A Geographical Reader" James Johonnot, 1882

Even Charles Dickens found this cult interesting, and in an article in "All the Year Round" (Feb.21,1885, p.475) wrote, "...when the pickaxe was made, great precautions were taken that no shadow might fall upon it before it had consecrated and render it useless".
"..seven crimson spots were then put on it".
Further, "...the pickaxe was a fetish, or holy thing. When buried in the earth, it would turn and point in the direction an expedition ought to take. An oath sword on it was inviolable".

In "the Thugs: The Myths of the Cult of Kali" (Dec. 11, 2007) John Walsh writes, "...the corpse would be tucked away in a rectangular grave swiftly dug with a special short handled pickaxe that all thugs carried. It is a curious thing that the same kind of pickaxe was issued to the soldiers fighting in WWI and these were used to dig the inordinately lengthy trench systems".

In further writing concerning the grandson of the British official who had suppressed the thuggee, Sir William Sleeman, it is noted that the pickaxe was shaped like an adze, five pounds in weight and seven inches in length, it had one point, was called a 'kussee' and given into the charge of the shrewdest thug in the gang. Its wooden handle was thrown away after its use, so the axe could be carried in the waistbelt.
Apparantly over seventy years after the events involving Sir William Sleeman, his grandson was involved in testing in India which resulted in the entrenching tool which ended up being issued to British forces in WWI. The article I read claims that he was unaware of the thuggee pickaxes , which seems unlikely and surprisingly coincidental, especially in that it is emphasized that the tool was remarkably similar to the thug 'kussee'.

It seems that seven inches would be a terribly small haft for a tool with which to dig effectively, and as it notes the handles were thrown away and the axes were often buried etc. perhaps this is why none seem to exist. It would seem that an implement as pronounced in the rituals of this cult might have been captured by those who infiltrated them and preserved as souveniers.
Jim McDougall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th December 2007, 05:56 PM   #3
spiral
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,712
Default

Fascinating stuff Jim!

Perhaps the 7 inch length mentioned was the head lenght not the haft though? axes are often described that way.

Seems even more likley if hafts were cut when needed? particularily if the heads were that heavy, I would think. But pure conjecture of course.

I wonder if there are any old Thuggee collections in museams in UK or India?

Spiral
spiral is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th December 2007, 06:09 PM   #4
spiral
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,712
Default

Just found this picture Jim! This one looks like a claw though.

Spiral




THUGGEE CHIEF 1843
Chief of the Thugs, captured by Captain Vallancey in Arcot disguised as a traveller's escort Date: 1843
spiral is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th December 2007, 07:24 PM   #5
Jim McDougall
Arms Historian
 
Jim McDougall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 9,957
Default

Thank you so much for responding Spiral!
Very good point on the length noted, and I wonder on the 5 pound weight as well. This seems pretty heavy, but I have surprised on the actual weight of many swords too. A rapier looks pretty light until you actually handle one!
Great picture you posted, I was looking everywhere to find any kind of an illustratiion showing the much discussed pickaxe, but couldnt find one. Well done!! and much appreciated.

I have been hoping that someone might have information on possible groupings of thuggee items, maybe the National Army Museum in London might have something. They've always been extremely helpful over the years in my constant questions on British swords.

I realize this topic will likely not bring much interest here, but I've always enjoyed going after esoteric topics, so thank you so much for joining me.

All very best regards,
Jim
Jim McDougall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th December 2007, 08:05 PM   #6
Rick
Vikingsword Staff
 
Rick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,294
Thumbs up

You've captured my interest Jim .
Rick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st December 2007, 03:49 AM   #7
Jim McDougall
Arms Historian
 
Jim McDougall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 9,957
Default

Thank you so much Rick!!! I recall you always did have keen interest in Indian and Central Asian esoterica.

All the best
Jim
Jim McDougall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st December 2007, 04:56 AM   #8
Rick
Vikingsword Staff
 
Rick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,294
Smile

Thanks Jim !
I wonder how accurate the depictions of the weapons in that old engraving are ?
If you are digging a hole you don't want something with an acute point; a point yes, but acute as shown in the engraving ?!?!?

There's got to be a photo of one out there somewhere ....
Rick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st December 2007, 05:22 AM   #9
Jim McDougall
Arms Historian
 
Jim McDougall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 9,957
Default

I agree Rick, and I suspect that the illustration are the product of the artists imaging of a 'pickaxe' drawn from assumption rather than an actual example. While it is exciting to see a period illustration, it is unlikely from an actual example, which seem pretty elusive.
I would think that for digging, the point would be wide across for penetrating and moving the soil. It is suggested that these were much like the trenching axes used by British forces in WWI, so maybe if we can find an example of one of those we might have some idea.
Thanks again Rick for coming in on this!
We'll keep looking
All the best,
Jim
Jim McDougall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st December 2007, 10:35 AM   #10
spiral
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,712
Default

Yes Rick, Jim, I agree that with old ingravings accuracy varies so much, but the tulwar grip in that one looks a bit unusual! so artistic licence may play a part.Looks like a form of Zaghnal almost.

Heres the ww1 Brit. entrenching tool



I have the head from one, Id guess the head weighs about 24oz max., it is very effective for digging through roots & hard clay soil etc.

Spiral
spiral is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st December 2007, 06:58 PM   #11
Jim McDougall
Arms Historian
 
Jim McDougall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 9,957
Default

Thanks very much Spiral. I figured if anybody were to locate one of these British entrenching axes it would be you I agree, the rather distorted image of that tulwar pretty much says it on the potential accuracy of the weapons!
The shape of the head on this entrenching tool seems more in line with what I picture with the thuggee form with more of a claw type shape (without the shovel of course.

All the best,
Jim
Jim McDougall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st January 2008, 09:36 PM   #12
kronckew
Member
 
kronckew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Room 101, Glos. UK
Posts: 4,186
Default

as a slight aside, the head of the ww1 entrenching tool was dismountable for storage, a cast steel mace head was also supplied that could be used in it's place for trench warfare.

mine (shaft is not original)
kronckew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st January 2008, 09:53 PM   #13
Jim McDougall
Arms Historian
 
Jim McDougall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 9,957
Default

Thanks very much Kronckew! that looks like a serious headache maker! It seems like it is similar to something that came up on a recent thread discussing some of the mace type weapons hafted with sword hilts in India. In discussing many of these I think we are reminded of the thin line parallel between weapons and tools.

All very best regards,
Jim
Jim McDougall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st January 2008, 10:06 PM   #14
kronckew
Member
 
kronckew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Room 101, Glos. UK
Posts: 4,186
Default

weapons are after all, just a type of tool. something politicians tend to forget. the only thing separating it from any other hunk of steel is the mind using it...

entrenching tools themselves (at least the shovel types, as far as i know) were frequently used as trench warfare tools, a sharpened edge was as good as a sword. the russian spetznast are fond of throwing sharpened entrenching tools even today....
kronckew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th January 2008, 05:04 AM   #15
BBJW
Member
 
BBJW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Idaho, USA
Posts: 228
Default

The old movie "Gunga Din" with Cary Grant and Victor McLaglen has some very interesting weapons. It shows the "thugs" using a double pick like a 2 sided zaghnal. Worth a look.

bbjw
BBJW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th January 2008, 05:08 AM   #16
BBJW
Member
 
BBJW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Idaho, USA
Posts: 228
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kronckew
weapons are after all, just a type of tool. something politicians tend to forget. the only thing separating it from any other hunk of steel is the mind using it...

entrenching tools themselves (at least the shovel types, as far as i know) were frequently used as trench warfare tools, a sharpened edge was as good as a sword. the russian spetznast are fond of throwing sharpened entrenching tools even today....

The Cold Steel company makes a very high quality copy of the Soviet Spetznast shovel. They sell for less than $20 and are very handy. I put one in all our vehicles.

bbjw
BBJW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th June 2023, 08:28 PM   #17
Jim McDougall
Arms Historian
 
Jim McDougall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 9,957
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BBJW View Post
The old movie "Gunga Din" with Cary Grant and Victor McLaglen has some very interesting weapons. It shows the "thugs" using a double pick like a 2 sided zaghnal. Worth a look.

bbjw
Revisiting old threads thought I'd add this.
Attached Images
 
Jim McDougall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th June 2023, 07:59 AM   #18
kronckew
Member
 
kronckew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Room 101, Glos. UK
Posts: 4,186
Default

Looks like the prop dept. whittled a point on the haft of a std. pick-adze
Attached Images
 
kronckew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th June 2023, 08:20 AM   #19
kronckew
Member
 
kronckew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Room 101, Glos. UK
Posts: 4,186
Default

Found essentially no reference to thuggee picks, except one photo.
There were references to their weapons being the strangling cloth, for ritual murders. They carried katars for personal defence weapons. They were taught to murder by strangling as a murder that shed blood required the death penalty, but one that didn't shed blood only required non-lethal punishments.
Attached Images
 
kronckew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th June 2023, 07:25 AM   #20
Gavin Nugent
Member
 
Gavin Nugent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,818
Default

It's been over a decade since I read this title, and it was a very fascinating read.

Within, and given how long it has been, but I don't recall any weapon used or implied... if the title can be found on google books or Jstor or similar, you may be able to do a word search within... would be a quicker way to obtain key information.

Gavin
Attached Images
  
Gavin Nugent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th June 2023, 01:44 PM   #21
kronckew
Member
 
kronckew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Room 101, Glos. UK
Posts: 4,186
Default

We can read it at Project Gutenberg:


Thug Or a million murders <-link


Didn't note in it any weapons mentioned for their murders, tho it noted in one place that in a group of 40 thugs, only three people carried a sword or dagger, they used a cloth sash for killing their victims.
kronckew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th June 2023, 04:03 PM   #22
Interested Party
Member
 
Interested Party's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Eastern Sierra
Posts: 478
Default

Also, elbows to left side of the body to break the short ribs and push them into the spleen may have been a method. It apparently is a very effective in a crowd. The victim doesn't die immediately but lingers for several days as they bleed internally, and it is hard to see who the assassin is. This tidbit was related to me by an internalist who was trying to convince me to go to the hospital after I broke a bunch of ribs.
Interested Party is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th June 2023, 04:30 PM   #23
Jim McDougall
Arms Historian
 
Jim McDougall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 9,957
Default

Thank you so much guys! Gav, I really appreciate you sharing that title and the photo! You have always been a fantastic book sleuth and the titles you have found in building your library always amazed me!

It has been many years since I did this research, and what I had found on the axes was that these were not at all used in murdering victims but actually ceremonially used the burial of the victims. It seems these 'thuggee' were nominally religious, and supposedly factored in the Hindu Faith and worship of the Goddess Kali. Actually they typically disguised themselves in accord with the contexts they were in, feigning various Faiths, but the element of their practices with religious ceremony and Kali created the situation with axes.

In some of the apocrypha on the thuggee, it was said that they made a pickaxe which was done ceremonially following dogma oriented steps, which involved blessings of the tool, painting of symbolic red dots etc.
These were used for the burial process, and having to do with the victim supposedly having been a ritual sacrifice.

Naturally these ritualistic 'followers' of Kali, seem to have been overshadowed in many cases by common 'dacoits' (=bandits) who were simply highwaymen who seem to have been factored collectively into this designation, or perhaps self styled themselves into the collective identity of thuggee..........that is 'posers'.

It has been said, as I recall, that no examples of the thuggee axe have ever been found, and that these individuals disposed on them in much the same ceremony as with which they were made.

It would seem that the film "Gunga Din" had this 'legend' of the 'thuggee' as its main plot, and perhaps the material was from the Sleeman book?

I found a book titled "Thug: The True Sory of Indias Murderous Cult" by Mike Dash , 2005 as well.
Jim McDougall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th June 2023, 05:23 PM   #24
Ian
Vikingsword Staff
 
Ian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: The Aussie Bush
Posts: 4,207
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kronckew View Post
We can read it at Project Gutenberg:

Thug Or a million murders <-link

Didn't note in it any weapons mentioned for their murders, tho it noted in one place that in a group of 40 thugs, only three people carried a sword or dagger, they used a cloth sash for killing their victims.
From the source cited by Wayne (Bhowani is another name for Kali):
Quote:
In former times the Thugs declared that their goddess, Bhowani, relieved them of the trouble of burying their victims by devouring them herself; but, in order that they might not see her doing this—a nicety not quite in keeping with her legendary character—she had strictly enjoined them never to look back on leaving the scene of a murder. On one occasion, however, a novice of the fraternity disobeyed this rule, and, imitating Lot's wife, looked back and saw the goddess in the act of feasting upon a corpse, which embarrassed her exceedingly, and as a punishment she declared that she would no longer devour those whom the Thugs killed. This was a great blow and they appealed to her mercy, with the result that she graciously consented to present them with one of her teeth for a pick-axe, with which she ordered them in future to bury those whom they destroyed.

This was the legendary introduction of the sacred kodalee, which became the chief part of the ritual which preceded every Thuggee expedition. In shape like an adze, five pounds in weight and seven inches in length, it had one point, and was consecrated with special devotion, after which it was called a kussee and given into the charge of the shrewdest and keenest Thug of the gang. Its wooden handle was thrown away the moment its use was ended, in order that the axe could be carried in the waistbelt without being seen or creating suspicion. During a Thuggee expedition the pick-axe was buried at nightfall in a secure place, with its point facing the way the Thugs intended to go next day, and they believed that, if another place would give them better sport, the direction of the point would be found changed in the morning. Formerly this kussee was thrown into a well at night, and the Thugs firmly believed that it came up without human help when summoned on the following morning. Ridiculous as this sounds, Sleeman was often told with every evidence of sincere belief that they had seen the sacred pick-axe rise from a well of its own accord and come to the hand of its custodian. Some, indeed, stated that they had seen several pick-axes of different gangs rise from the same well simultaneously and go to their respective bearers! They further believed that the sound made by the kussee in digging graves Was never heard by anyone but a Thug: that it was more sacred than even Ganges water or the Koran: and that a Thug perjuring himself by taking a false oath upon it died within six days.

Over seventy years later the grandson of Sir William Sleeman conducted tests in India which resulted in the introduction to the British Army of the entrenching tool carried by troops during the Great War. By a curious coincidence, and unknown to him at the time, this tool was almost identical in character with the kussee of the Thug, and while the latter had helped in the murder of countless thousands of people, the former saved innumerable lives.

Last edited by Ian; 18th June 2023 at 05:46 AM.
Ian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th June 2023, 07:45 PM   #25
kronckew
Member
 
kronckew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Room 101, Glos. UK
Posts: 4,186
Default

Yes, the 'sacred' pick-axe was for burying the dead, but not used to kill them, as was implied by the film referenced in the earlier post.
kronckew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th June 2023, 02:30 AM   #26
Gavin Nugent
Member
 
Gavin Nugent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,818
Default

Worth a read and perhaps better keyword searches within the museum and other UK museums might turn up something

Scroll down to "Crime and paranoia in London and India".
The the period model within the article shows the murders by strangulation and the grave being dug with the picks.

https://www.britishmuseum.org/exhibi...ting-histories

The model from 7 angles.
https://www.britishmuseum.org/collec..._As1847-0630-6

Links provided as I have not read the terms of use for images.

On Kali;
https://www.britishmuseum.org/exhibi...ution/timeline
Something I ponder within the notes from the museum is what Kali Symbolised post India conquest, being anti-colonial resistance.
Given the period and the "heyday" of the Thugee rising during colonial times.... Whilst only "opportunity" was targeted more than colonial occupation, does their cult and acts interplay with this resistance as much as what we already know from literature?

Not noted as Thugee but of the form in the engraving
https://www.britishmuseum.org/collec...ject/A_As-9661

Last edited by Gavin Nugent; 18th June 2023 at 02:49 AM.
Gavin Nugent is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 06:44 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.