For sharing and coment

[danny1976]

today i was lucky to find this keris for a nice price .

I think it,s bugi , it has a 9 luk blade but i need some help
with the pamor . at the sosoran it lookt a bit like raja abala raja but then the rest is for me

The wranka has a very old patin and the toli toli is old , when i was working on it try to clean it a bit a little piece broke of

So any coments are welcome.

regards,

danny

[Rick]

I get very confused about the wrongkos on these pieces ; aren't the truncated ends more a general Malay feature ?

Can anyone offer any general guidelines as to this ?

[BluErf]

Quite difficult to provide guidelines in words... But this is a Riau keris. Very very nice one by the way!

[BluErf]

Both Riau and Terengganu keris sheaths can have the 'clipped ends'. It's the execution and style that differentiates them, but frankly, sometimes, they are very very close.

[Rick]

Thanks Kai Wee, what style pendongkok should it have ?
The buntut has gone missing, correct ?

Agreed, I like this keris, and the Terennganu (sp?) example also .

[danny1976]

Hi Rick and Kai wee.


Yes the buntut is missing , any restore tips ?
To find a good old pendokok will be the next thing but i think it will be hard to find a good old one .


Kai wee . Can u be more specific why it is a Riau keris , only the blade or the complete keris and does some one has a photo of a Riau keris with Toli toli ?

The only thing i can tell about this keris tha it dit comer more than 6o years ago with a dutch gentlemen and he did purchase it in Sumatra.

[BluErf]

The most famous Riau keris of them all...

I think the whole keris of yours is Riau. The blade is rather unusual. You might want to get it warangan-ed. I see potentially interesting star patterns along the length. This sort of things - you can't tell until it is washed properly.

[Sajen]

Hi Danny,

congrats, a very good find. Hope you found a way to restore it.

[danny1976]

Hi Detlef,

Thanks ! i.m happy with this one

About the restore....I will look for a fitting mendak and maybe try to find a piece of horn or ivory for the buntut.
but for the rest i will leave the keris as it is, its old and i dont like it to become a ''bling bling keris ''

maybe i will give it a etch with vinager , because what i read a keris from sumatra doesn,t have the same stain with warangan as a javanese.

What,s youre opinion about the stain ?

regards,

danny

ow.... is some one has a old medak/pendoko..please pm ?

[Rick]

Danny, you can always post a Want ad in Keris Swap .

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by danny1976

Hi Detlef,

Thanks ! i.m happy with this one

About the restore....I will look for a fitting mendak and maybe try to find a piece of horn or ivory for the buntut.
but for the rest i will leave the keris as it is, its old and i dont like it to become a ''bling bling keris ''

maybe i will give it a etch with vinager , because what i read a keris from sumatra doesn,t have the same stain with warangan as a javanese.

What,s youre opinion about the stain ?

regards,

danny

ow.... is some one has a old medak/pendoko..please pm ?

Hi Danny,

since this blade seems to have a very nice pamor I would prefer to give the blade a classic warangan because you will see the pamor better, when you like it more discreet maybe not so strong etched.

My guess is that the buntut have been from metal but other will have a better opinion.

And you have a pm.

Regards,

Detlef

[DAHenkel]

Danny, did you ask the seller whether they had any history behind this keris? Any details about who collected the piece or where it was colleted would be very useful.

I think this is a Bugis keris but not Straits. It looks like it could be "tanah besar" that is, from Sulawesi itself.

I would strongly recommend that everyone who is interested in the Peninsular/Straits keris read more about the history of the region. Crucial reads are:

1. Tufat al Nafis - by Raja Ali Haji. There is an English translation called The Precious Gift by Barbara Harrison. This will give you a solid background on the history of the Bugis in the Straits from a Bugis Perspective.

2. Syair Perang Siak. This is a history from the perspective of the Sultans of Siak - who were more or less anti-Bugis and pro-Minang/Malay.

3. Sejarah Melayu. Malay Perspective and with lots of legendary history of the Malay people. Understanding what the Malay people are is crucial to understanding the Malay Keris.

4. Hikayat Hang Tuah. Another folk/popular history that is crucial to understanding Malay history. Note the very different story about the infamous keris Taming Sari.

5. Finally: while there are a lot of good reads about there the best all rounder for understanding the Malay world is a volume called "Contesting Malayness" edited by Tim Barnard. This puppy will blow your mind if you have any pre-concieved notions about the Malay World.

There are a ton of other very edifying books including Tony Reids two volume history of the early modern period of Southeast Asia "Land Below the Winds" and of course the Cambridge History. The Hikayat Pattani and other vernacular histories also provide much "color" for those of us who seek to understand the keris. Granted there's a lot here but read the volume's listed above and you will have a solid foundation for understanding the Malay Keris.

[danny1976]

Hello DAhenkel.

You wrote this ..

-------Danny, did you ask the seller whether they had any history behind this keris? Any details about who collected the piece or where it was colleted would be very useful.

I think this is a Bugis keris but not Straits. It looks like it could be "tanah besar" that is, from Sulawesi itself.-----------

The only thing that i know about the history is what the seller told me.
The kris was brought back by a uncle of his wife about 60 years ago and was given as a present to here , the had the keris for more than 30 years on there atick (zolder)
The uncle was statsioned on Sumatra during the dutch indie,s .
There is another keris by the sister of his wife but she don,t want to sell it he told me , but he would ask here .

But can u please explain more about Tanah besar , what would it mean if its from Sulawesi itself.

What looks strange to me is that after cleaning the tolo toli its seems like copper verry nice filagrain but the ''machette'' under the toli toli is silver i seems a odd combi to me.

Regards,

Danny

[BluErf]

Originally Posted by DAHenkel

Danny, did you ask the seller whether they had any history behind this keris? Any details about who collected the piece or where it was colleted would be very useful.

I think this is a Bugis keris but not Straits. It looks like it could be "tanah besar" that is, from Sulawesi itself.

The hilt and sheath form do not look Sulawesi to me at all. Perhaps Sipakatuo can share his insights into this keris form since he is from Sulawesi, and more likely to be better informed on the native keris forms than the rest of us.

[sipakatuo]

Hi Danny and Toh Kai Wei

This Keris mainly found in Sumatra, so its a Keris Sumatra with Bugis characters (Bugis Sumatra). But dont be surprise if sometimes you found a Sumatra form in Sulawesi. Keris is one of export and import commodities and as a moving object you can expect it to be everywhere. Hundred years ago when Makassar was a big commercial port (after Malaka collapsed) people from everywhere in Nusantara came to Makassar and so Sumatran. They also participate and working as pandai Keris helping Tunipalanga Ulaweng Sombaya Ri Gowa producing Keris for his infantri department.

As for the ure (Pamor) at the bottom sor soran is Timpa Laja, and above is unclear, please clean it first and try to re-post it. There are many ure in Sulawesi that relate to 'Sisi'. Sisi is signs whether a Keris is Good or Bad.

Thanks


Andi

[danny1976]

Hi Adni,

Thank u for youre input .
I gett a little confused at the moment, when i.m looking att the kris disk from Jensen under the section Sulawesi there,s a lot of simmilarities with my keris , for example the way the toli toli is made, the filagrain has a lote of simalarity,s as a keris on his disk.


As for the ure (Pamor) at the bottom sor soran is Timpa Laja, and above is unclear, please clean it first and try to re-post it. There are many ure in Sulawesi that relate to 'Sisi'. Sisi is signs whether a Keris is Good or Bad.

Do u know the meaning of the pamor Timpa Laja ? Please explain more about the ''sisi '' . What kind of sind would indicate a 'good' or ''bad'' keris.
I supose you are are talking about the tua/isi ? I have my own opinion about it but its always nice to learn.

I will clean and try to stain the blade when the whaeter is better over here

Regards,

[David]

Originally Posted by danny1976

Hi Adni

This may have simply been a slip of the keys, but sipakatuo's name is "Andi". I mention this because we do have an "Adni" who is a member hear so i am trying to avoid confusion.

[danny1976]

Thanks David.

Maaf Andi

[sipakatuo]

Hi Danny

David thanks for the correction.
Danny, please dont get confused with the Passingkerru Sumange, that is one of characters of the Bugis Keris. I have promised to explain and tell about passingkerru sumange later.

Timpa Laja means 'bersusun-susun' seperti atap depan rumah orang Bugis, it is represent a high status of the wearer. Sisi means 'Tanda', good or bad. We are not talking about 'Tuah' here, we dont use that terminology when examining Keris Bugis. In the old manuscript Lontara about the Bugis pusaka only stated 'Sisi'. When a Buginesse find a Pusaka first thing they look is 'Suke' or Sukatan, secondly is 'Sisi', and the last thing is 'Ure'. They even dare to cut half of the Keris if they think it is not suitable for them.

Measuring 'Suke' or sukatan have many ways. The easiest way is by measuring it using own fingger. As for Badik and some Gajang Pantje (small Keris or Bugis Patrem) simply put yor thumb at tip of ganja (Kancing in Bugis) and your middle fingger at the top (satu jengkal), if the Badik or Keris Patrem length is longger than your mid fingger means it is not suitable for you. Because if you use this Badik or Keris to fight you can get hurt by your opponnent and easily to get stab. This is one of many example of measuring 'Suke' in the old traditional Bugis faith.

Re-post your picture when cleaned and see if I can be any help.


Andi

Originally Posted by danny1976

Hi Adni,

Thank u for youre input .
I gett a little confused at the moment, when i.m looking att the kris disk from Jensen under the section Sulawesi there,s a lot of simmilarities with my keris , for example the way the toli toli is made, the filagrain has a lote of simalarity,s as a keris on his disk.


As for the ure (Pamor) at the bottom sor soran is Timpa Laja, and above is unclear, please clean it first and try to re-post it. There are many ure in Sulawesi that relate to 'Sisi'. Sisi is signs whether a Keris is Good or Bad.

Do u know the meaning of the pamor Timpa Laja ? Please explain more about the ''sisi '' . What kind of sind would indicate a 'good' or ''bad'' keris.
I supose you are are talking about the tua/isi ? I have my own opinion about it but its always nice to learn.

I will clean and try to stain the blade when the whaeter is better over here

Regards,

[danny1976]

Hi Guys,

Bumping this tread up ...
Finnaly i did find time to clean the blade and i did try to wash it.....
it was verry hard on this blade, 1 week pinaple juice, than mutih and worked on this blade from 11.00 till 17.00. the result is not a perfer stain
i did gett the first reaction on the blade after hours..
but its oke like this for me and the pamor is viseble.

so if someone want to make a ques ?

Andi was talking the last time over the pamor and the status of the wearer, and the traditionel meaning of the pamor .so Andi i hope you wil hop in .

it has a ''strange'' patron some kind of stars/butterfly .
i have now idea....

regards,

danny (p.s sorry for the bad photo,s )

[Sajen]

Hi Danny,

no idea how to call this pamor but I think that you have done a good job, maybe not perfect but good enough!

Greetz,

Detlef

[BluErf]

Congratulations! This would be a very very rare Bugis keris indeed. The last time I remembered I was wowed was when I saw this "chieftain" keris in Paul De Souza's collection, with crosses and chevrons in the pamor. But your specimen's "star" pamor looks even more outstanding!

[danny1976]

Thanks Detlef and Bleu erf.



Bleu erf , do you know the name of this pamor or the meaning ?

[BluErf]

Hi Danny,

I'm not able to help you on the meaning of the pamor. Sorry about that.

[danny1976]

Hi Bleu erf,

No problem , hope somebody will come with the answer

[danny1976]

Hi Guys ,

It did take a time but now i can show the keris after the restoration work.

Whit the help of two forum members I was able to bring it back in this condition.

[Marcokeris]

Awesome

[Maurice]

Originally Posted by danny1976

Hi Guys ,

It did take a time but now i can show the keris after the restoration work.

Whit the help of two forum members I was able to bring it back in this condition.

Nice work Danny!

It's a very handsome keris....

Maurice

[Battara]

I like it. Would this be used for ceremonial purposes?

[Sajen]

Hi Danny,

very, very nice!

Greetz,

Detlef