Another Keris Needs Help

oariff · 11th May 2024, 03:29 AM

Hi,

Need help identify this one please.

1) The keris does not seem to belong to the dress.
2) Is the pamor different on each side of the keris? And if it is, is this a common thing with keris?
3) Length to top of Ganja - 33cm

Cheers.

A. G. Maisey · 11th May 2024, 11:47 PM

Madura ladrang.

Pamor is the same on both sides, just more worn on one side than the other. The side with less prolific contrasting material probably started as thinner layer of pamor in the first place. Its an old blade, this sort of thing is common.

The hilt is Pulasir style, it was an idea of Raden Arya Cokroningrat of Sumenep, Madura, the first hilt of this style was crafted by Kyai Remen. The pommel section of this hilt supposedly represents a Roman soldier's helmet. The word "pulasir" comes from Dutch "volopsir" --- interesting this:- in Jawa the English "v" is pronounced halfway between "f" & "v", VW vehicles are "feewee"s, but the letter "f" becomes interchangeable with "p" --- the name "Fauzan" becomes "Pauzan".

Anyway, its a pulasir hilt, some people also call it a "rasogan sordaduh" --- soldiers uniform.

This hilt form was apparently popular with the Madurese mercenaries who served with the Dutch forces.

oariff · 12th May 2024, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Madura ladrang.

Pamor is the same on both sides, just more worn on one side than the other. The side with less prolific contrasting material probably started as thinner layer of pamor in the first place. Its an old blade, this sort of thing is common.

The hilt is Pulasir style, it was an idea of Raden Arya Cokroningrat of Sumenep, Madura, the first hilt of this style was crafted by Kyai Remen. The pommel section of this hilt supposedly represents a Roman soldier's helmet. The word "pulasir" comes from Dutch "volopsir" --- interesting this:- in Jawa the English "v" is pronounced halfway between "f" & "v", VW vehicles are "feewee"s, but the letter "f" becomes interchangeable with "p" --- the name "Fauzan" becomes "Pauzan".

Anyway, its a pulasir hilt, some people also call it a "rasogan sordaduh" --- soldiers uniform.

This hilt form was apparently popular with the Madurese mercenaries who served with the Dutch forces.

Thanks Alan. Most interesting.

1) Is it a Tilam Upih?
2) 1800-1900? or perhaps earlier?
3) What pamor will this be?

Cheers.

A. G. Maisey · 14th May 2024, 09:47 PM

Tilam upih is keris blade form, or "dhapur", it is a simple form, this keris is not tilam upih.

The blade is quite old, it is very likely before 1800 --- & I'm being very conservative here.

The dress is more recent, the scabbard probably pre-WWII, the hilt & mendak might be more recent than this, but I cannot give an estimate from the photos provided.

The pamor might have been something like bendo sagodo, there are several possibilities, but the deterioration in the blade prevents a definite opinion.

11th May 2024, 03:29 AM	#1
oariff Member Join Date: Apr 2024 Posts: 52	Another Keris Needs Help Hi, Need help identify this one please. 1) The keris does not seem to belong to the dress. 2) Is the pamor different on each side of the keris? And if it is, is this a common thing with keris? 3) Length to top of Ganja - 33cm Cheers. Attached Images

11th May 2024, 11:47 PM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,887	Madura ladrang. Pamor is the same on both sides, just more worn on one side than the other. The side with less prolific contrasting material probably started as thinner layer of pamor in the first place. Its an old blade, this sort of thing is common. The hilt is Pulasir style, it was an idea of Raden Arya Cokroningrat of Sumenep, Madura, the first hilt of this style was crafted by Kyai Remen. The pommel section of this hilt supposedly represents a Roman soldier's helmet. The word "pulasir" comes from Dutch "volopsir" --- interesting this:- in Jawa the English "v" is pronounced halfway between "f" & "v", VW vehicles are "feewee"s, but the letter "f" becomes interchangeable with "p" --- the name "Fauzan" becomes "Pauzan". Anyway, its a pulasir hilt, some people also call it a "rasogan sordaduh" --- soldiers uniform. This hilt form was apparently popular with the Madurese mercenaries who served with the Dutch forces. Last edited by A. G. Maisey; 12th May 2024 at 12:03 AM.

14th May 2024, 09:47 PM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,887	Tilam upih is keris blade form, or "dhapur", it is a simple form, this keris is not tilam upih. The blade is quite old, it is very likely before 1800 --- & I'm being very conservative here. The dress is more recent, the scabbard probably pre-WWII, the hilt & mendak might be more recent than this, but I cannot give an estimate from the photos provided. The pamor might have been something like bendo sagodo, there are several possibilities, but the deterioration in the blade prevents a definite opinion.