French or Continental light cavalry sword, Solingen made

Will M · 30th May 2022, 05:21 PM

A nice brass hilted light cavalry sword with the Solingen swirl on the blade spine. A light weight sword with a double fullered 32 3/4" curved blade. The grip is wooden core, cord bound and leather covered. 3 bar brass hilt with langets. Typical generic etching, one being the sun with a face.
I'd like to pin it down to a particular country but this has been elusive.

werecow · 1st June 2022, 12:31 AM

French XI Light Cavalry Officer Sabre maybe? e.g.

Radboud · 1st June 2022, 04:08 AM

It's a nice looking sword, the fullering on the blade is quite distinct and almost reminds me of some of the British 1788 Pattern light cavalry blades. The hilt is of the French AN XI Chasseurs a Cheval style with some noticeable differences from those we normally see.

This could mean that it is from a later period than the blade or that it's from another country that adopted (as was common in the time) the French style. What does the peen look like?

corrado26 · 1st June 2022, 11:24 AM

here is an other one with signature "Mit Gott fuer Koenig und Vaterland" and the Solingen rose at the spine. So I think this was in use with officers of Prussian militia troops.

werecow · 1st June 2022, 02:04 PM

The sun with a face could be a Solingen mark... Although it is a bit crude (see picture attached).

The "petit-Montmorency-style" secondary fuller and the fact that the main fuller ends before the guard on the OP's sabre is interesting. You don't see that all that often on these kinds of broad cutting blade. It's more curved and has a wider tip than an actual petit-Montmorency blade though.

I found a similar one on ebay with the double fullering that is listed as "French Napoleonic 1814 Lancers Sword" (see picture attached) but that attribution seems wrong so that probably doesn't help. It also lacks the ricasso block and it has a shark skin grip rather than leather.

Will M · 1st June 2022, 07:47 PM

Thanks Corrado the pommel and peen match my sword exactly. Great to know that it's a Prussian sword, I don't like the "Continental" label that says not known. Looks impressive with its brass scabbard.

Radboud · 1st June 2022, 11:27 PM

Don't discount the possibility that it could be from one of the other German States, I believe that you found a similar sword that Herman Historica attributed to a cavalry officer from Saxony.

Regarding the features of the blade, I find the style appealing and it does show up on swords in various locations, this one is a Georgian Officers' sword from my collection:

Radboud · 7th June 2022, 12:26 AM

Another sword just like it. Definitely looks like a specific model/pattern given the amount that are around once you start to look.

werecow · 7th June 2022, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Another sword just like it. Definitely looks like a specific model/pattern given the amount that are around once you start to look.

Yeah, there's a bunch of them with small variations... another one is discussed here. It's clearly (some derivative of?) the French light cavalry sabre modèle An IX or XI, or the hilt could be from an F1 dress saber (though I can only find pictures of reproductions of those at the moment, and the blade in the OP seems too wide). In any case, the secondary "petit-Montmorency-style" fuller seems anomalous on these mounts and the main fuller usually extends all the way down.
Of course, the French Napoleonic models were copied a lot... The Prussian origin suggested by corrado26 seems plausible given the German inscription on his example, except I don't think I've ever seen a Prussian sword in these kinds of brass three-branch mounts. Maybe Bavarian? Swiss? Austrian? Who else spoke German around that time? }|:oP

toaster5sqn · 7th June 2022, 09:42 PM

I'm going to have to disagree with it being a French sabre, the pommel is completely different to the French models shown.

Robert

Radboud · 7th June 2022, 10:31 PM

This is an interesting read from another forum:

https://sbg-sword-forum.forums.net/t...rs-sabre-saxon

My suspicion would be that it belonged to an officer of a German State, either in French service or afterwards.

werecow · 7th June 2022, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toaster5sqn

I'm going to have to disagree with it being a French sabre, the pommel is completely different to the French models shown.

Robert

My contention is only that it is based on the French IX and XI designs, not that the specific sabre shown in the OP is French. I still think it easily could be, but the German inscription on at least one sword with similar mounts suggests a more plausible alternative hypothesis.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radboud

This is an interesting read from another forum:

https://sbg-sword-forum.forums.net/t...rs-sabre-saxon

My suspicion would be that it belonged to an officer of a German State, either in French service or afterwards.

Yes, although keeping in mind toaster5sqn's remarks, note also that the sword under discussion there has a much blockier pommel, much more like the Dutch M1813 he's comparing it to.

30th May 2022, 05:21 PM	#1
Will M Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: In the wee woods north of Napanee Ontario Posts: 391	French or Continental light cavalry sword, Solingen made A nice brass hilted light cavalry sword with the Solingen swirl on the blade spine. A light weight sword with a double fullered 32 3/4" curved blade. The grip is wooden core, cord bound and leather covered. 3 bar brass hilt with langets. Typical generic etching, one being the sun with a face. I'd like to pin it down to a particular country but this has been elusive. Attached Images

1st June 2022, 11:24 AM	#4
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,207	here is an other one with signature "Mit Gott fuer Koenig und Vaterland" and the Solingen rose at the spine. So I think this was in use with officers of Prussian militia troops. Attached Images

1st June 2022, 02:04 PM	#5
werecow Member Join Date: Sep 2021 Location: Leiden, NL Posts: 499	The sun with a face could be a Solingen mark... Although it is a bit crude (see picture attached). The "petit-Montmorency-style" secondary fuller and the fact that the main fuller ends before the guard on the OP's sabre is interesting. You don't see that all that often on these kinds of broad cutting blade. It's more curved and has a wider tip than an actual petit-Montmorency blade though. I found a similar one on ebay with the double fullering that is listed as "French Napoleonic 1814 Lancers Sword" (see picture attached) but that attribution seems wrong so that probably doesn't help. It also lacks the ricasso block and it has a shark skin grip rather than leather. Attached Images

1st June 2022, 11:27 PM	#7
Radboud Member Join Date: Sep 2021 Location: New Zealand Posts: 261	Don't discount the possibility that it could be from one of the other German States, I believe that you found a similar sword that Herman Historica attributed to a cavalry officer from Saxony. Regarding the features of the blade, I find the style appealing and it does show up on swords in various locations, this one is a Georgian Officers' sword from my collection: Attached Images

7th June 2022, 12:26 AM	#8
Radboud Member Join Date: Sep 2021 Location: New Zealand Posts: 261	Another sword just like it. Definitely looks like a specific model/pattern given the amount that are around once you start to look. Attached Images

1st June 2022, 12:31 AM	#2
werecow Member Join Date: Sep 2021 Location: Leiden, NL Posts: 499	French XI Light Cavalry Officer Sabre maybe? e.g.

1st June 2022, 04:08 AM	#3
Radboud Member Join Date: Sep 2021 Location: New Zealand Posts: 261	It's a nice looking sword, the fullering on the blade is quite distinct and almost reminds me of some of the British 1788 Pattern light cavalry blades. The hilt is of the French AN XI Chasseurs a Cheval style with some noticeable differences from those we normally see. This could mean that it is from a later period than the blade or that it's from another country that adopted (as was common in the time) the French style. What does the peen look like?

1st June 2022, 07:47 PM	#6
Will M Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: In the wee woods north of Napanee Ontario Posts: 391	Thanks Corrado the pommel and peen match my sword exactly. Great to know that it's a Prussian sword, I don't like the "Continental" label that says not known. Looks impressive with its brass scabbard.

7th June 2022, 09:42 PM	#10
toaster5sqn Member Join Date: Jul 2021 Location: New Zealand Posts: 72	I'm going to have to disagree with it being a French sabre, the pommel is completely different to the French models shown. Robert

7th June 2022, 10:31 PM	#11
Radboud Member Join Date: Sep 2021 Location: New Zealand Posts: 261	This is an interesting read from another forum: https://sbg-sword-forum.forums.net/t...rs-sabre-saxon My suspicion would be that it belonged to an officer of a German State, either in French service or afterwards.