Kindjal help needed - origin and translation

wolviex · 20th September 2007, 11:57 AM

Hello again!

I need your help with this kindjal

First of all I have some problems with establishing of its place of origin: Georgia? Persia?

I believe the translating of the cartouches would be helpful, so I'll be greatful for any help here

Thank you in advance, and enjoy the pictures

levani · 20th September 2007, 01:58 PM

hi,

place of origin of this beautiful kinjal is Georgia. blademark is georgian masters as well, but master could be persian, armenian, dagestan and etc. ... who knows what nationality

rand · 20th September 2007, 09:54 PM

Am in agreement with Levani about this kindjal originating from Georgia, the stylized birds head at the end of the decoration bordering the writing on the blade is commenly seen on Georgian architecture and a popular motif for decoration on their arms.

The Islamic calligraphy suggests a, Ottoman or Persian owner, a translation will help identifying that more clearly.

The calligraphy if of high quality with a circular vegetal motif interwoven amongst the script, a style more commen for an earlier time period. Believe Georgia was part of the Russian Empire when this dagger was made and primarily a Christian country. If memory serves the first Christian church was is in its close neighbor Armenia.

Can you tell me what is covering the rivets holding the grip scales on the tang?

rand

fernando · 20th September 2007, 10:26 PM

Very nice piece.

wolviex · 21st September 2007, 09:26 AM

Thank you so far for your help!

I believe the rivets are covered with horn (of buffalo? - I believe horn is the proper word). The middle and smallest rivet is iron, not covered but formed as the bigger ones. Anyway, the rivets covering is made of the same material as the other side of the handle, while the front of the grip is made of bone.

Regards!

rand · 21st September 2007, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolviex

Thank you so far for your help!

I believe the rivets are covered with horn (of buffalo? - I believe horn is the proper word). The middle and smallest rivet is iron, not covered but formed as the bigger ones. Anyway, the rivets covering is made of the same material as the other side of the handle, while the front of the grip is made of bone.

Regards!

Horn is what I expected your answer would be, the grip scales are walrus ivory. Many times on these daggers if you look straight down the blade in line with tip to pommel you will see a slight "S" shape, this helps hold the blade snug in the scabbard, very ingenious of who ever thought of it first. Sometimes on boar spear heads you see the same shaping.

Its fortunate that the calligraphy on the blade(most likely a quote from the Quran) is in such good condion, you can see this kindjal was used over a long period of time indicated by the wear on the decoration between the grip scales.

There is a great book about the people from this area called "Sabres from Paradise", gives you a real flavor for how strong these people are.

I notice you are from Poland, a few years back some great swords surfaced from there that had been used for decoration in castles for years.

rand

Mare Rosu · 25th September 2007, 02:27 AM

Wolviex;
That is one nice dagger and I come to that conclusion from the very great pictures you took of it.
Now I just wish I could help you in your quest for an interpretation of the inscriptions. (I have trouble with English)

I do think that there is someone from this forum that could help, in as much as all of the help you have given to the folks including me, on this forum.
Folks step up and help out Wolviex.
Gene

20th September 2007, 11:57 AM	#1
wolviex Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Poland, Krakow Posts: 418	Kindjal help needed - origin and translation Hello again! I need your help with this kindjal First of all I have some problems with establishing of its place of origin: Georgia? Persia? I believe the translating of the cartouches would be helpful, so I'll be greatful for any help here Thank you in advance, and enjoy the pictures Attached Images

20th September 2007, 01:58 PM	#2
levani Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 28	georgian hi, place of origin of this beautiful kinjal is Georgia. blademark is georgian masters as well, but master could be persian, armenian, dagestan and etc. ... who knows what nationality

20th September 2007, 09:54 PM	#3
rand Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 538	Georgian Am in agreement with Levani about this kindjal originating from Georgia, the stylized birds head at the end of the decoration bordering the writing on the blade is commenly seen on Georgian architecture and a popular motif for decoration on their arms. The Islamic calligraphy suggests a, Ottoman or Persian owner, a translation will help identifying that more clearly. The calligraphy if of high quality with a circular vegetal motif interwoven amongst the script, a style more commen for an earlier time period. Believe Georgia was part of the Russian Empire when this dagger was made and primarily a Christian country. If memory serves the first Christian church was is in its close neighbor Armenia. Can you tell me what is covering the rivets holding the grip scales on the tang? rand Last edited by rand; 21st September 2007 at 01:05 AM.

25th September 2007, 02:27 AM	#7
Mare Rosu Deceased Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: USA, DEEP SOUTH, GEORGIA, Y'all hear? Posts: 121	Pictures Wolviex; That is one nice dagger and I come to that conclusion from the very great pictures you took of it. Now I just wish I could help you in your quest for an interpretation of the inscriptions. (I have trouble with English) I do think that there is someone from this forum that could help, in as much as all of the help you have given to the folks including me, on this forum. Folks step up and help out Wolviex. Gene

20th September 2007, 10:26 PM	#4
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Very nice piece.

21st September 2007, 09:26 AM	#5
wolviex Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Poland, Krakow Posts: 418	Thank you so far for your help! I believe the rivets are covered with horn (of buffalo? - I believe horn is the proper word). The middle and smallest rivet is iron, not covered but formed as the bigger ones. Anyway, the rivets covering is made of the same material as the other side of the handle, while the front of the grip is made of bone. Regards!