The Camel and Heavy Weapons.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

I note that detail of Camel mounted weapons is missing from Library and hope to put that right ...The camel has long been used for transporting men and materiel to and from the battlefront...Not much is written about their use as weapon platforms or heavy weapons carriers....til now.
Understandably heavy weaponry would be best not fired as the camel was standing up or moving but sat down (kneeling) and tethered I can imagine a fairly solid platform was achievable.

Mughal Artillery, however, it is claimed, used lighter Camel artillery whilst moving; "Camel guns" Shutarnal and "swivel guns" Zamburak, on the other hand, were carried on camel-back and were fired while mounted. Other light guns were mounted on wheeled carts, pulled by oxen or horses.

See http://www.heliograph.com/trmgs/trmgs2/camel.shtml
See also http://www.desertusa.com/animals/des...xperiment.html

[Ian]

Ibrahiim:

Thank you for posting these interesting pics. The last one, showing mounted riflemen using the British SMLE Mk. III in 0.303 caliber, brings back less than pleasant memories of my adolescent school days lugging around the same weapon on buses and trains as part of mandatory participation in school cadets. Such was school life in Australia in the 1960s.

Ian.

[Bob A]

I seem to recall T E Lawrence mentioning using camel-mounted Lewis guns, but references elude me at this time. The Ur-technical of the period, I suppose.

[kahnjar1]

I could understand rifles and maybe machine guns being used while mounted on camels, but find it a little hard to accept that cannon were mounted in such a fashion. The recoil of such a weapon would be considerable. Surely these sketches must contain some rather far fetched artistic licence?
I can relate to Ian's comment re school cadets and the heavy (for school boys) Lee Enfield. In organised range shoots I can remember a very small of stature friend having to climb back up the mound after each shot!
Stu

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

I could understand rifles and maybe machine guns being used while mounted on camels, but find it a little hard to accept that cannon were mounted in such a fashion. The recoil of such a weapon would be considerable. Surely these sketches must contain some rather far fetched artistic licence?

I guess it depends on your definition on "cannon".

Indian (mughal) matchlock swivel cannon (zamburak, shaturnal , shahin), used on the back of a camel or even elephant. With a bore in excess of one inch and a barrel around three times the normal width of a musket. Superb early ironwork with superb hide retaining straps, fine walnut stock. 62 inches overall length, barrel length 41.25 inches, external muzzle width 2 inches.

[Edster]

No sure if this post is "legal" 'cause it shows a Camel Gatling Gun that is currently for sale. But still it seems to fit the subject.

http://www.collectorsfirearms.com/co...n-45-70-c9743/

Regards,
Ed

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

ED ... i THINK IT WILL BE OK AS THAT ITEM LOOKS SOLD ...fUNNILY ENOUGH ON THE SUBJECT OF CAMEL GUNS WHAT i THOUGHT i HAD IN MY STORE AS A DHOW GUN TURNS OUT TO BE A CAMEL GUN...

Khanjar 1... I think the smaller bore punt gun style could be fired whilst the camel was standing but I cannot see how it would be accurate however having owned camels myself once the beast is sitting down the platform would be quite solid... They can go from standing to sitting in a few seconds then tethering in say 15 seconds thus quite quick.

Ian ... The 303 Lee Enfield was a great weapon but it must have been awful as young cadets to have to carry a weapon that large and heavy...

Bob A ... Ideal animal for hauling heavy hitting stuff across the desert...Please see http://www.telstudies.org/writings/w...rth_army.shtml

[kronckew]

edster, the item in your post seems to have disappeared. i note that the drawings (and the one showing a punt gun type on a camel) above show a very precarious mount with the muzzle dangerously close to the camel's head. i would suspect if used many camels would be headless in a pitched battle. it'ds also be very hard to reload. the one real pic of a gun on a camel seems to show it being used to transport a real artillery piece for subsequent reassembly prior to use. drawings can be flights of fancy by artists who never saw but only heard by word of mouth. even the one actually showing the gun would have a hard time firing it in it's present position, especially with shot or langrage. could be used in a fake 'parade style charge & volley fire that performers seem to enjoy in north african get-togeters with muskets firing blanks.

one of my favourite pics, the 1939 classic 'gunga din', (title role played by sam jaffe, who was not indian) not only has some neat sword fights, enfields & bayonets, indian lancer charges and scots guards attacking, but shows a pair of elephants used to transport, in pieces, a proper gatling gun they subsequently assemble and use to more that decimate the enemy 'thugee' cavalry charge, and to fill the air with a cloud of smoke as it would have... a more likely approach for a camel as well. 'gunga din' tends to get TV airing freequently here in the UK, i tend to watch it again and again. made during the end of the british raj, they actually use british and indian soldiers to play both sides in the battle, and the scots guards and indian lancers acted just like they would have in a real period battle there. i've heard they all really enjoyed the battle scenes. i also note it took TWO elephants to carry a gatling and its carriage/ready boxes etc. but they assembled it in a couple of minutes.

anyway, i suspect mounting a proper artillery piece to be fired from a standing camel, or even a prone one, was a literary (or at best a 'parade' item) enhancement. (using one of the small bore ones above may have been a bit more practical from the howdah of an ellyfant who would tend not to get it's head in the firing line...)

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by kronckew

edster, the item in your post seems to have disappeared. i note that the drawings (and the one showing a punt gun type on a camel) above show a very precarious mount with the muzzle dangerously close to the camel's head. i would suspect if used many camels would be headless in a pitched battle. it'ds also be very hard to reload. the one real pic of a gun on a camel seems to show it being used to transport a real artillery piece for subsequent reassembly prior to use. drawings can be flights of fancy by artists who never saw but only heard by word of mouth. even the one actually showing the gun would have a hard time firing it in it's present position, especially with shot or langrage. could be used in a fake 'parade style charge & volley fire that performers seem to enjoy in north african get-togeters with muskets firing blanks.

one of my favourite pics, the 1939 classic 'gunga din', (title role played by sam jaffe, who was not indian) not only has some neat sword fights, enfields & bayonets, indian lancer charges and scots guards attacking, but shows a pair of elephants used to transport, in pieces, a proper gatling gun they subsequently assemble and use to more that decimate the enemy 'thugee' cavalry charge, and to fill the air with a cloud of smoke as it would have... a more likely approach for a camel as well. 'gunga din' tends to get TV airing freequently here in the UK, i tend to watch it again and again. made during the end of the british raj, they actually use british and indian soldiers to play both sides in the battle, and the scots guards and indian lancers acted just like they would have in a real period battle there. i've heard they all really enjoyed the battle scenes. i also note it took TWO elephants to carry a gatling and its carriage/ready boxes etc. but they assembled it in a couple of minutes.

anyway, i suspect mounting a proper artillery piece to be fired from a standing camel, or even a prone one, was a literary enhancement.

Apparently not quite; It sounds unbelievable but the lightest of the camel guns could be fired off a standing camel but absolutely never from a moving beast... The camel, it was discovered, hardly flinched when these weapons were fired.

Firing position.
The position was that the camel was instructed to sit. This was achieved by a number of guteral grunts khhhh!!! khhhh!!! khhhh!!!! by the handler upon which the front legs folded and unless the handler leaned backwards at the same time he would be catapulted about 10 feet into the desert... The legs of the camel were then quickly hobbled or tethered making it impossible for it to stand up or scatter on the noise of the gun... Most sketches show how the camel simply peers off into the distance as if registering the fire ...and if they could talk they could give corrections...right 100....etc

Once sitting down the ton and a half of beast and equipment would be a solid platform enough to fire reasonably accurately with cannon or Gatling.

Moghul Artillery see http://warfare.altervista.org/18C/Ar...DStevenson.htm from which I Quote"

Artillery.
The huge guns favoured by the Moghuls were looked upon almost as gods. The gunners were considered the most reliable troops in the army as they were paid directly by the state. The enormity of their guns is apparent when considering that the largest siege guns used by the British were 24 pounders and that 48 pounders were considered average size in Moghul armies. One Indian gun called 'Malik-i-Maidon' ('Master of the Field') fired a roundshot weighing 2,646 pounds. Generally speaking most of the artillery transported to the battlefield were not larger than the 9.5 inch 'Zam-Zama' ('Thunderer'). Because of their size and the relative inefficiency of the Indian gunners and despite their longer range the Moghul guns were far out-classed by the lighter and more manoeuvrable guns of their European foes which delivered a more accurate and higher rate of fire. In action Moghul guns were chained together as an obstacle to charging cavalry.

Some of the lighter guns were mounted on mobile platforms, bullock drawn and pushed from the rear by elephant.

Very light 1 pdr. and ½ pdr. guns were mounted on camels (Zambereks or Zambuks),

or on elephants (Gingals or Jingals).

Rockets.
Rockets were very popular with Moghul armies. The rockets were simply explosive devices fixed to a bamboo shaft, often with a blade attached to it's head. The rockets were ignited and thrown by hand, travelling a wildly erratic course for up to 1,000 yards. Because of this and their small bursting charge, rockets were only effective against large bodies of troops and to scare animals. Rocketeers usually carried their rocket supply in carts or on camels and when not in use the shafts were ornamented with small pennants."Unquote.

So far as I can tell...The camel when seated is the ideal position from which to fire in the dismounted, but on the camel, seated role..There is no way a camel can be used belting along at 10 knots firing its main armament... When seated it is difficult for the animal to raise its head in line with the canon on its back...on the high pintle mounting. The physiology of the camel will not allow that. Once tethered/ hobbled the camel cannot stand up until the hobble rope is untied from its legs... Seated, the firing position is excellent.

Note below that a soldier is holding the chain attached to the camels nose... This nose ring gives total control to the handler... The camel will not move when one of these is pinned through its nose...The firing position shown below is apparently the one used in all armies using this system.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

See below an amazing description of Persian Camel Artillery from http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-VYcvVJDFVp...anzambruck.jpg

Se also https://books.google.com.om/books?id...camels&f=false

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

See below an amazing description of Persian Camel Artillery from http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-VYcvVJDFVp...anzambruck.jpg

Se also https://books.google.com.om/books?id...camels&f=false

Ibrahiim, you forgot the second page.

[Jim McDougall]

Ibrahiim, AMAZING topic!!!!!
Excellent entries and artwork, you and Estcrh are a great team at the graphics and support in these discussions.

Kronckew, I could not be with you more on "Gunga Din", and I can never seem to watch that and these other classics enough.
Many years ago, I was about to watch Gunga Din ..AGAIN! and asked my wife to join me........she said OK......but you cant wear the helmet *...you're scaring the cats!!!!

* my trusty British pith helmet

It is always unclear just how often these weapons were discharged from the animals, it seems mostly they were transported by them, then assembled at position . I think of the Mountain Artillery guns packed in on horseback etc.
I have always thought of camels as pretty skittish, and a loud report or recoil might offset them. But then it seems the firing of matchlocks or muskets from them must have been loud too .

[estcrh]

Indian camel gun, probably 18th Century, but earlier ones would be similar (Tower of London).

[VANDOO]

I HAVE SEEN THE GATLING GUNS FOR MOUNTING ON CAMELS OR BEING TRANSPORTED BY THEM. I AM NOT SURE OF THE CALIBER BUT THEY WERE NOT AS LARGE AS THE ONES MOUNTED ON WHEELS. I HAVE A PICTURE OF A CAMEL WITH ONE MOUNTED ON ITS BACK BUT DIDN'T FIND IT. HERE IS A MORE STANDARD TOUAREG WITH CAMEL, SADDLE, SPEAR AND PERHAPS A LARGE SHIELD.

[kronckew]

there was a small 1893 'police' model gatling in .45-70
rate of fire was 'only' 800 rounds per minute.

if i recall, the crank operated gatling is legal without a machine gun licence from atf as it a manually loaded, cocked, and fired weapon. i recall seeing one in .22lr which is about the only way to afford the ammo, and even that ain't cheap or easy to find in bulk nowadays.

p.s. - the modern equivalent: LINKY TO VIDEO

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Ibrahiim, AMAZING topic!!!!!
Excellent entries and artwork, you and Estcrh are a great team at the graphics and support in these discussions.

Kronckew, I could not be with you more on "Gunga Din", and I can never seem to watch that and these other classics enough.
Many years ago, I was about to watch Gunga Din ..AGAIN! and asked my wife to join me........she said OK......but you cant wear the helmet *...you're scaring the cats!!!!

* my trusty British pith helmet

It is always unclear just how often these weapons were discharged from the animals, it seems mostly they were transported by them, then assembled at position . I think of the Mountain Artillery guns packed in on horseback etc.
I have always thought of camels as pretty skittish, and a loud report or recoil might offset them. But then it seems the firing of matchlocks or muskets from them must have been loud too .

Hello Jim, Camels can be pretty impervious to noise or on other occasions can absolutely go crackers at even a leaf blowing across their front. When sat down (or folded) they can sit docile other than the odd grunt and are immobilized by tying the legs preventing leg extension ... Once they are up and running they don't tend to stop for several hours and even when they do their heartbeat is about the same as it was at the start... When grazing it is best to tie their legs together hobbling them to a few hundred metres overnight otherwise the next day is spent roaring after them beyond the horizon..

Estcrh Thanks for tying in page 2 on that reference and it observes the best position for firing ...enabling a bigger charge to be applied when fully dismounted firing from the ground.

[kronckew]

one of our satellite channels here, 'movies4men', showed gunga din just before lunch today, i tuned in just in time for the final battle scene i mentioned above, ellyfants, smokey gatlings, lancers, scots guards and all form thsoe interested in the UK that can receive the channel it's on again on 22JUN16 at 01:45-04:00 in the morning, so get your recorder programmed

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by kronckew

one of our satellite channels here, 'movies4men', showed gunga din just before lunch today, i tuned in just in time for the final battle scene i mentioned above, ellyfants, smokey gatlings, lancers, scots guards and all form thsoe interested in the UK that can receive the channel it's on again on 22JUN16 at 01:45-04:00 in the morning, so get your recorder programmed

One of the most famous poems ever.. By Rudyard Kipling~

YOU may talk o' gin an' beer
When you're quartered safe out 'ere,
An' you're sent to penny-fights an' Aldershot it;
But if it comes to slaughter
You will do your work on water,
An' you'll lick the bloomin' boots of 'im that's got it.
Now in Injia's sunny clime,
Where I used to spend my time
A-servin' of 'Er Majesty the Queen,
Of all them black-faced crew
The finest man I knew
Was our regimental bhisti, Gunga Din.

It was "Din! Din! Din!
You limping lump o' brick-dust, Gunga Din!
Hi! slippy hitherao!
Water, get it! Panee lao!
You squidgy-nosed old idol, Gunga Din!"

The uniform 'e wore
Was nothin' much before,
An' rather less than 'arf o' that be'ind,
For a twisty piece o' rag
An' a goatskin water-bag
Was all the field-equipment 'e could find.
When the sweatin' troop-train lay
In a sidin' through the day,
Where the 'eat would make your bloomin' eyebrows crawl,
We shouted "Harry By!"
Till our throats were bricky-dry,
Then we wopped 'im 'cause 'e couldn't serve us all.

It was "Din! Din! Din!
You 'eathen, where the mischief 'ave you been?
You put some juldee in it,
Or I'll marrow you this minute,
If you don't fill up my helmet, Gunga Din!"

'E would dot an' carry one
Till the longest day was done,
An' 'e didn't seem to know the use o' fear.
If we charged or broke or cut,
You could bet your bloomin' nut,
'E'd be waitin' fifty paces right flank rear.
With 'is mussick on 'is back,
'E would skip with our attack,
An' watch us till the bugles made "Retire."
An' for all 'is dirty 'ide,
'E was white, clear white, inside
When 'e went to tend the wounded under fire!

It was "Din! Din! Din!"
With the bullets kickin' dust-spots on the green.
When the cartridges ran out,
You could 'ear the front-files shout:
"Hi! ammunition-mules an' Gunga Din!"

I sha'n't forgit the night
When I dropped be'ind the fight
With a bullet where my belt-plate should 'a' been.
I was chokin' mad with thirst,
An' the man that spied me first
Was our good old grinnin', gruntin' Gunga Din.

'E lifted up my 'ead,
An' 'e plugged me where I bled,
An' 'e guv me 'arf-a-pint o' water—green;
It was crawlin' an' it stunk,
But of all the drinks I've drunk,
I'm gratefullest to one from Gunga Din.

It was "Din! Din! Din!
'Ere's a beggar with a bullet through 'is spleen;
'E's chawin' up the ground an' 'e's kickin' all around:
For Gawd's sake, git the water, Gunga Din!"

'E carried me away
To where a dooli lay,
An' a bullet come an' drilled the beggar clean.
'E put me safe inside,
An' just before 'e died:
"I 'ope you liked your drink," sez Gunga Din.
So I'll meet 'im later on
In the place where 'e is gone—
Where it's always double drill and no canteen;
'E'll be squattin' on the coals
Givin' drink to pore damned souls,
An' I'll get a swig in Hell from Gunga Din!

Din! Din! Din!
You Lazarushian-leather Gunga Din!
Tho' I've belted you an' flayed you,
By the livin' Gawd that made you,
You're a better man than I am, Gunga Din!

[Bob A]

Much gratitude to Ibrahim al Balooshi, for the multitude of synaptical connections his thread has caused to flash in my memory banks.

First, the links to Lawrence, Castle Hill and the Arab Bulletin. I had thought I had done with TEL decades ago, but now I'm awash in so much new information I may have to dive into those deep, if brackish, waters again.

Then Kipling and Gunga Din, for a moment of complete thread hijack, for which in best military tradition I assume it's best to apologise after, rather than seek permission:

"YOU may talk o' gin an' beer
When you're quartered safe out 'ere,"
inspired the title of George Macdonald Fraser's book, "Quartered Safe Out Here", which I mention for the following tangential reasons; it is one of the few books on military campaign written by a professional writer who served in the ranks, rather than as an officer, further because it describes the WWII Burma campaign, so seldom mentioned. It concerns the commander General William Slim, who might have been the best fighting general officer in the British military at the time. (General Slim also influenced the use of the Naga warriors, under the command of Miss Ursula Bower, to interdict (and behead many of) the Japanese in the Burma Theater, while providing an escape chain for downed airmen flying The Hump. Anyone interested in the doings of that time would be well advised to look into Fraser).

Sorry. Thank you for your patience. Now back to (quadrupedal) beasts of burden in warfare . . .

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Bob A

Much gratitude to Ibrahim al Balooshi, for the multitude of synaptical connections his thread has caused to flash in my memory banks.

First, the links to Lawrence, Castle Hill and the Arab Bulletin. I had thought I had done with TEL decades ago, but now I'm awash in so much new information I may have to dive into those deep, if brackish, waters again.

Then Kipling and Gunga Din, for a moment of complete thread hijack, for which in best military tradition I assume it's best to apologise after, rather than seek permission:

"YOU may talk o' gin an' beer
When you're quartered safe out 'ere,"
inspired the title of George Macdonald Fraser's book, "Quartered Safe Out Here", which I mention for the following tangential reasons; it is one of the few books on military campaign written by a professional writer who served in the ranks, rather than as an officer, further because it describes the WWII Burma campaign, so seldom mentioned. It concerns the commander General William Slim, who might have been the best fighting general officer in the British military at the time. (General Slim also influenced the use of the Naga warriors, under the command of Miss Ursula Bower, to interdict (and behead many of) the Japanese in the Burma Theater, while providing an escape chain for downed airmen flying The Hump. Anyone interested in the doings of that time would be well advised to look into Fraser).

Sorry. Thank you for your patience. Now back to (quadrupedal) beasts of burden in warfare . . .

Brilliantly put !! Regards Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by kronckew

one of our satellite channels here, 'movies4men', showed gunga din just before lunch today, i tuned in just in time for the final battle scene i mentioned above, ellyfants, smokey gatlings, lancers, scots guards and all form thsoe interested in the UK that can receive the channel it's on again on 22JUN16 at 01:45-04:00 in the morning, so get your recorder programmed

Wish I still had my helmet!

[Jim McDougall]

Ibrahiim, thank you so much for posting "Gunga Din" in full by Kipling.
Kipling's work is quintessant in describing the wonderful color and pageantry of the British Raj, its diversity, as well as the dramatic contests between cultures and their challenges.

It was said that the British soldier would never bother gathering souveniers or trophies from an enemy he did not respect and admire. While Gunga Din was of course not an enemy, but ally in the British ranks, and this poem just shows the great respect the British Army learned to hold for so many of these people.
In most cases, the cultures in India were not really subdued by the British, but came to become allied with them in a carefully orchestrated accord, in my opinion of course.

Getting back to the camels, I really am intrigued by knowing more firsthand on their behavior from someone who has actually dealt with them. It seems they are far more phenomenal and perplexing than I imagined.

Good notes on Lawrence, another favorite topic, and it seems there was a recent discovery of a .45 pistol (Lawrence was the only one present with a M1911 Colt at the site of the famed railway ambush). This is said to be proof of Lawrences account of the raid, which had been strongly debated.

[Berkley]

Fascinating thread!
I thought I recognized one if the illustrations in Ibrahiim's original post, and after a little searching found it. I reproduce it here, as shown in that wonderful resource, the Francis Bannerman Catalog of Military Goods. The accompanying text offers some interesting details: "as good as new" and "only used a short time" suggesting that Bannerman's stock, at least, did not see much action before being sold out of service.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Ibrahiim, thank you so much for posting "Gunga Din" in full by Kipling.
Kipling's work is quintessant in describing the wonderful color and pageantry of the British Raj, its diversity, as well as the dramatic contests between cultures and their challenges.

It was said that the British soldier would never bother gathering souveniers or trophies from an enemy he did not respect and admire. While Gunga Din was of course not an enemy, but ally in the British ranks, and this poem just shows the great respect the British Army learned to hold for so many of these people.
In most cases, the cultures in India were not really subdued by the British, but came to become allied with them in a carefully orchestrated accord, in my opinion of course.

Getting back to the camels, I really am intrigued by knowing more firsthand on their behavior from someone who has actually dealt with them. It seems they are far more phenomenal and perplexing than I imagined.

Good notes on Lawrence, another favorite topic, and it seems there was a recent discovery of a .45 pistol (Lawrence was the only one present with a M1911 Colt at the site of the famed railway ambush). This is said to be proof of Lawrences account of the raid, which had been strongly debated.

Thank You Jim, I feel that the essence of ethnographics is contained in some of these anecdotes and more so in the poetry especially about soldiers exploits... where it brushes shoulders with the weaponry of the day.

Camels of course are part of the story of exploits across the regions not only as logistic long haul beasts of burden but in carrying up ammunitions and bringing back casualties from the battlefront...even though the journey for an injured soldier would be hellish in such conditions.

It is odd that they have peculiar feet that make plodding in sand quite pleasant and oddly once they start into a trot it is as if they are hydroplaning and though it looks hairy the ride is not unpleasant and you feel the magic carpet experience ...Oddly they can run in a sort of jailhouse walk method or bound along like rabbits...They are said to have come from an animal that was like a big hare originally from the USA. They are related to Lama and also the one humper is of the same family and can breed with two humpers !!

The meat is almost free of cholesterol as is the milk though straight from the camel it goes through Europeans like lightening thus not recommended unless you are used to it.

Strangely they can see in a sandstorm as they have special see through eye lids .. Whats more is they can small water miles away..and can make a beeline for it. This is useful in the desert where you may be no further away than 30 feet from running water but unfortunately it is straight down...

They are built with very strange reproductive organs ...and some people wonder how such small equipment originate and how can people make gunpowder flasks out of these? It is said that when Moses was doing the Ark that the parts of the Donkey..somehow got mixed up with those of the camel !! so now we have donkeys with massive equipment and camels with tiny gear. Camels in the middle east need to be put to the business of reproduction as they seem to have forgotten how to do it... It is one of the funniest procedures ...

Camels here are all owned by someone ..When an imported beast comes in fro Australia they come equipped to do everything. Arabian camels dont jump...Australian ones do... very high. They can also kick a handler in the face on the way up and down...Much to the handlers amazement.

When running camels can go and go... The heart rate hardly moves ... They have massive capacity to carry heavy weights and only get tetchy if after a week they haven't been able to access water...which can be pretty brackish...If you have no water you die after losing only a relatively small amount of body weight... Camels don't... They get a bit angry... but they can lose 25% of their weight to the extent you cant identify which is your camel...they change shape that much... but on getting to water they act like vacuum cleaners and hoover up all that weight loss in about 15 minutes and whats more.. they carry on like nothing just happened...!! The big camel trains of an age gone by didn't stop ...they watered and fed on the move... and could be thousands strong...

On being asked how much weight it can carry the Bedouin will just smile at you ...You just keep putting on the weight... You will know its too much when the beast refuses to stand up!!

To end on a male female note... Female camels don't come into season...(they are actually in season all the time).. Males do. Beware these gigantic Galaisa (lead Camel) males with teeth like those of a two ton lion... they use these gigantic jaws to tear down the branches of desert thorn trees to eat the tiny leaves...They can easily bite off a human arm or leg...and head...if as a handler you get between a female and a male camel in season... usually the colder months.