AFRICAN CEREMONIAL SPEARS FOR COMMENT

VANDOO · 18th July 2009, 05:48 AM

I HAVE HAD THESE FOR QUITE A WHILE BUT KNOW VERY LITTLE ABOUT THEM. I APOLIGIZE FOR THE PICTURE QUALITY IN ADVANCE AS ITS THE BEST I CAN DO AT PRESENT.
THE LARGER ONE I BOUGHT FROM A MAN FROM GAMBIA WHO TOLD ME THEY USE THEM TO ANNOUNCE THAT THE MAN IS GOING TO BE GETTING MARRIED. THE GROOM WALKS THRU THE VILLAGES OF HIS PEOPLE WITH THE SPEAR CARRIED AT HIS SHOULDER LIKE WE WOULD MARCH WITH A RIFLE ON OUR SHOULDER. THIS SHOWS THE ENTIRE VILLAGE HE IS COMITTED TO MARRY SOON. I WAS TOLD IT IS CALLED A TETENUDE IN THE FULA LANGUAGE AND WAS USED BY THE MASSAI. THE BLADES HAVE A RAISED RIDGE DOWN THE CENTER AND SIMPLE HAMMERED TEXTURE DECORATION IN THE CENTER ON BOTH SIDES.
I HAD ALWAYS ASSUMED IT WAS FROM THE CONGO AND WAS CEREMONIAL SO DON'T KNOW IF ANY OF THIS INFORMATION IS CORRECT SO I HOPE SOMEONE CAN GIVE ME THE CORRECT INFORMATION IF WHAT I NOW HAVE IS JUST A STORY. THANKS IN ADVANCE

colin henshaw · 18th July 2009, 09:10 AM

Hi

I think these are a type of currency spear often used in the purchase of wives, from the Congo.

Wodimi · 18th July 2009, 03:46 PM

Hi Vandoo,
Colin is right, it's a currency spear from the Mbole, who live on the lower course of the river Lomami in DRC (Democratic Republic of the Congo).
This guy with "FULA LANGUAGE AND WAS USED BY THE MASSAI" told you really bullshit. Fula or Fulani are living in West Africa and Masai in East Africa.
Such spear blades are attached (with a short wooden shaft)to a rectangular iron bar . The whole length is normal around 2m or 80". It is a traditional custum that this lance were driven into the ground in front of the home of the bride, to demonstrate that the payment of the dowry had been done by the bridegroom.
Attached a picture of three different Mbole currency spears from my collection.
I hope it helps a little bit.
Regards
Wolf

www.spearcollector.com

VANDOO · 18th July 2009, 07:19 PM

COLIN AND WOLF THANKS FOR THE INFORMATION

, I SUSPECTED I HAD SOME INCORECT INFORMATION AS I HAVE VISITED THE MASAI AND SAW NOTHING SIMULAR.

THE COMPLETE EXAMPLE I HAVE IS 70 INCHES LONG THE BUTT SPIKE IS AS YOU DESCRIBED BUT THE CENTER WOODEN PIECE LOOKS LIKE IT WAS BROKEN AND FIXED SOME TIME AGO SO PERHAPS IT IS SHORTER THAN USUAL.
MY SMALLER EXAMPLE MAY NEVER HAVE BEEN USED AS I ONLY HAVE THE HEAD AND IT IS IN PERFECT CONDITION EVEN THE BLACK FORDGED FINISH IS STILL INTACT. I FOUND IT HANGING ON A WALL AT AN ESTATE SALE IN THE EARLY 1970'S.
THE COMPLETE ONE IS MORE ORNATE BUT IT HAS LOST METAL THRU RUST AND SOME OF THE THIN DECORATIVE PARTS HAVE BROKEN OFF WITH USE AND THRU NEGLECT. IT WAS DEFINITELY NOT JUST A TOURIST ITEM BUT SAW USE IN THE PAST ALTHOUGH IT HAD BEEN NEGLECTED FOR QUITE A WHILE IN ITS MORE RECENT HISTORY.
THANKS FOR THE PICTURES ALSO IT IS VERY GOOD TO SEE THE DIFFERENT VARIATIONS AND AS ALWAYS GET A LOOK AT OTHER MEMBERS GOODIES.

Wodimi · 18th July 2009, 08:33 PM

if you need a third you can look here :-)
http://www.randtribal.com/AH_currency_18.html

Best
Wolf

www.spearcollector.com

Tim Simmons · 24th July 2009, 10:23 PM

Barry,

I have just aquired this Ibo ceremonial spear. All bronze, made in two sections, sleeved in the twisted cage section. Early to mid 20th century. I think it is a jolly impressive piece of chiefly regailia. The black and white image is from {Jan Elsen - Der fer et de fierte} and collected 1960, all iron with brass binding. Sorry my pics are taken rather late in the day.

Wodimi · 24th July 2009, 11:40 PM

Congratulation Barry, that's a real outstanding piece. I never saw it in brass before. Thanks for showing and whenever you will sell it, please have me in your mind. Attached my iron brother of your spear.

Regards Wolf

www.spearcollector.com

Tim Simmons · 25th July 2009, 06:58 PM

Wolf,

It was I who post the picture of the Bronze Ibo spear, thanks for you response. These things could well be 19th century. You promted me to refer to my copy of "History of Nigeria-Sir Alan Burns" which can be found through amazon and well worth having. Exploration of the south and the oil rivers started in the 1830s, trading following. A British protectorate established in 1885. There was exstensive military action in the region up to the first world war. This extract helps give back ground to the objects.

Wodimi · 25th July 2009, 08:53 PM

Hello Tim,
sorry for my mistake with the name. I was so thrilled about your spear, that I don't notice, that it was you who posted the Ibo spear. Thanks a lot for your hint with your book and Amazon, I just ordered it.
Best wishes
Wolf

www.spearcollector.com

VANDOO · 2nd August 2009, 04:05 AM

THIS HAS TURNED OUT WELL AS I HAVE ONE OF THESE ,WHAT I REFFERED TO AS BIRD CAGE SPEARS AROUND HERE SOMEWHERE. THIS POST HAS IDENTIFIED TWO UNKNOWN SPEARS IN ONE POST. I WILL LOOK AROUND AND SEE WHERE IT IS SO I CAN COMPARE IT TO THE EXAMPLES POSTED AND SEE IF IT IS A VARIATION OR THE SAME. THANKS GUYS!

Tim Simmons · 10th August 2009, 08:43 PM

Wolf, great name I know I have said that before.

You might like to get this book I have just recieved from amazon. Bibliolife, a company that reproduce rare books. AMONG the IBOS of NIGERIA: account of the curious & interesting habits, customs and beliefs, George Thomas Basden, origanlly printed in 1921.
The few pictures are not that well printed but interesting none the less. Here are two pages from the chapter on weapons, there are no pictures of weapons. I found the writing exciting enough even through 1920s eyes.

18th July 2009, 05:48 AM	#1
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	AFRICAN CEREMONIAL SPEARS FOR COMMENT I HAVE HAD THESE FOR QUITE A WHILE BUT KNOW VERY LITTLE ABOUT THEM. I APOLIGIZE FOR THE PICTURE QUALITY IN ADVANCE AS ITS THE BEST I CAN DO AT PRESENT. THE LARGER ONE I BOUGHT FROM A MAN FROM GAMBIA WHO TOLD ME THEY USE THEM TO ANNOUNCE THAT THE MAN IS GOING TO BE GETTING MARRIED. THE GROOM WALKS THRU THE VILLAGES OF HIS PEOPLE WITH THE SPEAR CARRIED AT HIS SHOULDER LIKE WE WOULD MARCH WITH A RIFLE ON OUR SHOULDER. THIS SHOWS THE ENTIRE VILLAGE HE IS COMITTED TO MARRY SOON. I WAS TOLD IT IS CALLED A TETENUDE IN THE FULA LANGUAGE AND WAS USED BY THE MASSAI. THE BLADES HAVE A RAISED RIDGE DOWN THE CENTER AND SIMPLE HAMMERED TEXTURE DECORATION IN THE CENTER ON BOTH SIDES. I HAD ALWAYS ASSUMED IT WAS FROM THE CONGO AND WAS CEREMONIAL SO DON'T KNOW IF ANY OF THIS INFORMATION IS CORRECT SO I HOPE SOMEONE CAN GIVE ME THE CORRECT INFORMATION IF WHAT I NOW HAVE IS JUST A STORY. THANKS IN ADVANCE Attached Images

18th July 2009, 03:46 PM	#3
Wodimi Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Germany Posts: 75	Hi Vandoo, Colin is right, it's a currency spear from the Mbole, who live on the lower course of the river Lomami in DRC (Democratic Republic of the Congo). This guy with "FULA LANGUAGE AND WAS USED BY THE MASSAI" told you really bullshit. Fula or Fulani are living in West Africa and Masai in East Africa. Such spear blades are attached (with a short wooden shaft)to a rectangular iron bar . The whole length is normal around 2m or 80". It is a traditional custum that this lance were driven into the ground in front of the home of the bride, to demonstrate that the payment of the dowry had been done by the bridegroom. Attached a picture of three different Mbole currency spears from my collection. I hope it helps a little bit. Regards Wolf www.spearcollector.com Attached Images

24th July 2009, 10:23 PM	#6
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	Barry, I have just aquired this Ibo ceremonial spear. All bronze, made in two sections, sleeved in the twisted cage section. Early to mid 20th century. I think it is a jolly impressive piece of chiefly regailia. The black and white image is from {Jan Elsen - Der fer et de fierte} and collected 1960, all iron with brass binding. Sorry my pics are taken rather late in the day. Attached Images

24th July 2009, 11:40 PM	#7
Wodimi Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Germany Posts: 75	Congratulation Barry, that's a real outstanding piece. I never saw it in brass before. Thanks for showing and whenever you will sell it, please have me in your mind. Attached my iron brother of your spear. Regards Wolf www.spearcollector.com Attached Images

25th July 2009, 06:58 PM	#8
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	Wolf, It was I who post the picture of the Bronze Ibo spear, thanks for you response. These things could well be 19th century. You promted me to refer to my copy of "History of Nigeria-Sir Alan Burns" which can be found through amazon and well worth having. Exploration of the south and the oil rivers started in the 1830s, trading following. A British protectorate established in 1885. There was exstensive military action in the region up to the first world war. This extract helps give back ground to the objects. Attached Images

18th July 2009, 09:10 AM	#2
colin henshaw Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,430	Hi I think these are a type of currency spear often used in the purchase of wives, from the Congo.

18th July 2009, 07:19 PM	#4
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	COLIN AND WOLF THANKS FOR THE INFORMATION , I SUSPECTED I HAD SOME INCORECT INFORMATION AS I HAVE VISITED THE MASAI AND SAW NOTHING SIMULAR. THE COMPLETE EXAMPLE I HAVE IS 70 INCHES LONG THE BUTT SPIKE IS AS YOU DESCRIBED BUT THE CENTER WOODEN PIECE LOOKS LIKE IT WAS BROKEN AND FIXED SOME TIME AGO SO PERHAPS IT IS SHORTER THAN USUAL. MY SMALLER EXAMPLE MAY NEVER HAVE BEEN USED AS I ONLY HAVE THE HEAD AND IT IS IN PERFECT CONDITION EVEN THE BLACK FORDGED FINISH IS STILL INTACT. I FOUND IT HANGING ON A WALL AT AN ESTATE SALE IN THE EARLY 1970'S. THE COMPLETE ONE IS MORE ORNATE BUT IT HAS LOST METAL THRU RUST AND SOME OF THE THIN DECORATIVE PARTS HAVE BROKEN OFF WITH USE AND THRU NEGLECT. IT WAS DEFINITELY NOT JUST A TOURIST ITEM BUT SAW USE IN THE PAST ALTHOUGH IT HAD BEEN NEGLECTED FOR QUITE A WHILE IN ITS MORE RECENT HISTORY. THANKS FOR THE PICTURES ALSO IT IS VERY GOOD TO SEE THE DIFFERENT VARIATIONS AND AS ALWAYS GET A LOOK AT OTHER MEMBERS GOODIES.

18th July 2009, 08:33 PM	#5
Wodimi Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Germany Posts: 75	if you need a third you can look here :-) http://www.randtribal.com/AH_currency_18.html Best Wolf www.spearcollector.com

25th July 2009, 08:53 PM	#9
Wodimi Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Germany Posts: 75	Hello Tim, sorry for my mistake with the name. I was so thrilled about your spear, that I don't notice, that it was you who posted the Ibo spear. Thanks a lot for your hint with your book and Amazon, I just ordered it. Best wishes Wolf www.spearcollector.com

2nd August 2009, 04:05 AM	#10
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	THIS HAS TURNED OUT WELL AS I HAVE ONE OF THESE ,WHAT I REFFERED TO AS BIRD CAGE SPEARS AROUND HERE SOMEWHERE. THIS POST HAS IDENTIFIED TWO UNKNOWN SPEARS IN ONE POST. I WILL LOOK AROUND AND SEE WHERE IT IS SO I CAN COMPARE IT TO THE EXAMPLES POSTED AND SEE IF IT IS A VARIATION OR THE SAME. THANKS GUYS!

10th August 2009, 08:43 PM	#11
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	Wolf, great name I know I have said that before. You might like to get this book I have just recieved from amazon. Bibliolife, a company that reproduce rare books. AMONG the IBOS of NIGERIA: account of the curious & interesting habits, customs and beliefs, George Thomas Basden, origanlly printed in 1921. The few pictures are not that well printed but interesting none the less. Here are two pages from the chapter on weapons, there are no pictures of weapons. I found the writing exciting enough even through 1920s eyes. Attached Images