Indian folding knives

[ariel]

Another forum ( Russian) has a heated argument whether Chaqu, an Indian/Persian folding knife, is a native invention or a copy of European implements.
The only mention of it that I am aware of is in Egerton's picture from Ain-i-Akbari, 16 century. This is well before the British arrival to India, and barely 100 years after Vasco da Gama's contact with S. Indian kingdoms.. The picture is primitive, and precise identification of specific features is difficult.
Does anybody know of any good evidence of the presence of Chaqus in India before contact with the europeans? Any truly old examples of Persian, Afghani or Turkic/Mongolian folding knives preceding 16th century?
Anything in Tanavoli's collection ( I have no copy)?
Much obliged for any info.

[Jens Nordlunde]

Ariel,

James Allen and Brian Guilmour: Persian Steel. The Tanavoli Collection, Oxford University Press 2000.

A number of folding knives are shown, but they are all 19th century, and I don’t remember if older folding knives are mentioned in the text. Attached is the oldest one shown, dated AH 1221 (AD 1806-7).

Sorry I could not be of more help.

Jens

[Runjeet Singh]

Folding knives of a sort, I have had these for a while. I believe they are South Indian Betel Nut knives, probably 18th Century, if not earlier. Pictured next to an Iphone for indication of size.

I have seen South Indian/Sri Lankan betel nut folding knives which I would consider 17th and 18th Century in the past. Some information on those lies in the book 'Ancient Swords Daggers and Knives in Sri Lanakan Museums' by Silva and Wikramsinghe.

Regards,
Runjeet

[ariel]

Thanks a lot.
Any known folding knives before the arrival of europeans? If not acual examples, at least a mention of them.

[laEspadaAncha]

Originally Posted by ariel

Thanks a lot.
Any known folding knives before the arrival of europeans? If not acual examples, at least a mention of them.

I would think the old adage of form following function combined with the age-old practice of writing texts on (banana?) leaves would together support the likely of existence of such knives before European contact... Maybe the answer would more likely lie in the research of archaic practices of Brahmin scribes than in the search for a knife-reference per say?

[Jim McDougall]

Excellent call Chris!!!!
Often the information needed is found in literature outside the expected arms topics, in this case having more to do with the function performed than the implement itself. Spot on sir!!!

Excellent and fascinating illustration Jens of that compound knife.

All best,
Jim

[fearn]

Hi All,

If I remember rightly,

--The Romans created the first folding knives
--The Romans were definitely in contact with India.

If these are both correct, I'm not sure whether we'll ever find evidence of indigenous Indian folding knives older than the Roman ones. But wouldn't it be cool if we did.

Best,

F

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by ariel

Thanks a lot.
Any known folding knives before the arrival of europeans? If not acual examples, at least a mention of them.

Curious about the discussion on the other forum, any support, evidence or examples? or just another 'heated discussion' void of substance

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Runjeet Singh

Folding knives of a sort, I have had these for a while. I believe they are South Indian Betel Nut knives, probably 18th Century, if not earlier. Pictured next to an Iphone for indication of size.

I have seen South Indian/Sri Lankan betel nut folding knives which I would consider 17th and 18th Century in the past. Some information on those lies in the book 'Ancient Swords Daggers and Knives in Sri Lanakan Museums' by Silva and Wikramsinghe.

Regards,
Runjeet

I don't think that this are Betel knives, the betel nut is to hard that you can cut it with this knifes. Is it possible that this are old opium knifes?

Regards,

Detlef