PARANG NJABOER / NABUR ' Recognition Chart ' (i)

Amuk Murugul · 25th October 2014, 08:31 PM

Hullo everybody!

AND YET AGAIN, I have been asked the same type of questions.
This post is an attempt to obviate such a recurrence.
I have reconstructed charts I made when I was still starting out.
'THANK YOU' to all you (involuntary) contributors for providing the pictures.( My apologies. I hope I haven't annoyed you too much by not first seeking permission to use them.)

The following is based on basic shape:

Amuk Murugul · 25th October 2014, 08:34 PM

Basic types based on general overall appearance:

Amuk Murugul · 25th October 2014, 08:35 PM

Notes:
- There is no standard for curvature or length.
- Parang Njaboer Balanak, aka Parang Toeso'.
- Parang Njaboer Lais, aka Parang Soedo'.
- Parang Njaboer Pipih, aka Parang Patjat Gantoeng.
- Such parangs generally aka Parang Pamangkas or Parang Kemoedi Singkir.
- Prior to c.1860, red-painted parang-njaboers ( Baladaw Balabang ) were worn by outer-perimeter palace-guards.

Best,

Amuk Murugul · 9th January 2015, 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amuk Murugul

Notes:
.....
.
.
.
- Such parangs generally aka Parang Pamangkas or Parang Kemoedi Singkir.
.
.
.

SHOULD BE:

- Such parangs generally aka Parang Panangkas or Parang Kemoedi Singkir.

Apologies.

Amuk Murugul · 9th January 2015, 06:34 AM

Just for the sake of completeness:

Pedang Salin Alai Waloet & Pedang Salin Alai Balanak respectively:

VVV · 9th January 2015, 07:52 AM

Amuk,

It's interesting to see all slight variations of the same sword in one thread but what is the purpose of that you are giving each variation a modern Indonesian name?

I am also a bit perplexed that you are using the general term "Parang Njaboer" for some of them. From where does this term come and what does it mean?

What is the difference in your chart between the "Parang Njaboer" and the "Baladaw Balabang", except dress materials and (mostly) age?

"Prior to c.1860, red-painted parang-njaboers ( Baladaw Balabang ) were worn by outer-perimeter palace-guards."

Could you please develop this interesting information - which palace, what source and why prior to 1860? Did they stop making them after c. 1860, so the scabbard is an exact age indicator?

Why haven't you included the Banjar Jenawi in this list (enclosed)?

Michael

Amuk Murugul · 15th November 2015, 05:21 AM

Hullo everybody!

Pedang Parang Lais (c1800):

LxOALxWxT=46x57x2.06x1.09cm.

Enjoy!

Best,

ariel · 15th November 2015, 02:31 PM

I might be missing a point, but what was the basis of such a classification?

Size? Handle? Contour of the point? Contour of the blade? Color of the scabbard?

What " differences in the basic shape " are important? Are we talking about real issues of construction or just about local monikers of the same sword?
I do love Parang Naburs and would love to really understand them.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=nimcha

For example: would you refer to it as. Lais type?

Help me out.
Thanks.

kronckew · 15th November 2015, 04:35 PM

my parang nabur (Beladah Belabang)

asomotif · 15th November 2015, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronckew

my parang nabur (Beladah Belabang)

Nice example. In dutch terminology this could be called :
"Krom zwaard met gemene scherpe punt en bloedgeul"

A lot of dutch would call it "sabel" or "klewang".

This terminology is fully regardless of size, curvature, shape, age and espcecially regardless of colour.

If my comment is puzzling you...
This thread is puzzling me.

kronckew · 15th November 2015, 09:28 PM

Krom zwaard met gemene scherpe punt en bloedgeul="Scimitar with a nasty sharp point and blood groove". (really. no such thing as 'blood grooves', they're 'fullers' in english, a device to lighten a blade without losing rigidity.

in the words of the immortal bard, crocodile dundee, that's not a dutchy sabel/klewang, THIS is a dutchy sabel/klewang:

.

the dutch ARE fond of the clipped points on their sabels.

premise: jim bowie (boo-ee) was a dutchman. discuss.

Maurice · 23rd November 2015, 08:10 PM

Hi Amuk,

Could you please spend some time in answering Michaels questions, as I also would like to know and am curious about the names you use in your "recognition chart"?
I suppose you have the names from the Leiden database, as I noticed some years ago that they use names like you are mentioning for these beladah belabang types from Negara/Bandjermassin area. Or are these later terms they are used to call them nowadays?

Best regards,
Maurice

Amuk Murugul · 8th January 2016, 02:28 AM

Hullo everybody!

To share, for your enjoyment/info.

Type: Parang Tjarangasoka.
Name: Masih Bandjar.
Blade: LxOALxWxT=56x68x4.75x0.99cm.
Handle: Wood w/ silver ftgs.

(Before anyone asks; it IS a Lais)

Synonyms: Parang Nyabur , Parang Nyabor , Parang Niabur , Parang Nabur

Best,

Amuk Murugul · 8th January 2016, 02:35 AM

Ariel,

- Basis of classification is simply the general shape of the blade.

- 'What " differences in the basic shape " are important? Are we talking about real issues of construction or just about local monikers of the same sword?’
It’s like asking: What’s the difference between a Tilam Upih and a Tilam Sari keris.

- 'For example: would you refer to it as. Lais type?’
No, I would not refer to it as a Lais type.

Maurice,

-'I suppose you have the names from the Leiden database, as I noticed some years ago that they use names like you are mentioning for these beladah belabang types from Negara/Bandjermassin area. Or are these later terms they are used to call them nowadays?’
I do my own research to my own satisfaction. ‘Beladah Belabang’ is not a term I recognise; it is meaningless to me.

Michael,

- 'It's interesting to see all slight variations of the same sword in one thread but what is the purpose of that you are giving each variation a modern Indonesian name?’
While the words may look Indo, they aren’t; after all, Indo is a derivative of a much older language.

- 'I am also a bit perplexed that you are using the general term "Parang Njaboer" for some of them. From where does this term come and what does it mean?’
I use the term for all the above parangs; the exception being the Pedang Parang, which is a parang-like blade kitted as a pedang and thus much lighter.
Njaboer comes from the old word ‘aboer’, meaning panic/desolation. Thus Parang Njaboer is a parang which causes a state of panic/desolation/confusion resulting from war.
- Baladaw Balabang means ‘knife of red soldier/guard-house’.
When one speaks of Parang Njaboer/Naboer, it implies southern Kalamantan and the Bandjar.
- Bandjar Djenawi is a pedang, not a parang.

Best,

A. G. Maisey · 8th January 2016, 04:35 AM

Amuk, I am finding this thread very interesting, and I thank you for taking the time and effort to place this information before us.

I have only a slight interest in the weapons being discussed here, but I do have a very high level of interest in language and its use. Because of this, I am having some difficulty with some of the information you are presenting.

Could I impose upon you to identify the language, or languages that you are drawing upon for translation of the names you provide?

For instance, the word "nyaboer" (nyabur). Could you please advise what language you have drawn this word from for your translation?

In formal B.I. there are several words that could be identified as the root word for nyabur; in Javanese there is at least one word, probably more; in formal Malay there is at least one word, probably more

Perhaps you are not drawing upon any of these languages ?

Perhaps you are drawing upon a dialect, or some other mainstream language?

I really would appreciate it if you could clarify this matter for me.

Thanks.

25th October 2014, 08:31 PM	#1
Amuk Murugul Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Kaboejoetan Galoenggoeng Mélben Posts: 460	PARANG NJABOER / NABUR ' Recognition Chart ' (i) Hullo everybody! AND YET AGAIN, I have been asked the same type of questions. This post is an attempt to obviate such a recurrence. I have reconstructed charts I made when I was still starting out. 'THANK YOU' to all you (involuntary) contributors for providing the pictures.( My apologies. I hope I haven't annoyed you too much by not first seeking permission to use them.) The following is based on basic shape: Attached Images

25th October 2014, 08:34 PM	#2
Amuk Murugul Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Kaboejoetan Galoenggoeng Mélben Posts: 460	PARANG NJABOER / NABUR ' Recognition Chart ' (ii) Basic types based on general overall appearance: Attached Images

25th October 2014, 08:35 PM	#3
Amuk Murugul Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Kaboejoetan Galoenggoeng Mélben Posts: 460	NOTES Notes: - There is no standard for curvature or length. - Parang Njaboer Balanak, aka Parang Toeso'. - Parang Njaboer Lais, aka Parang Soedo'. - Parang Njaboer Pipih, aka Parang Patjat Gantoeng. - Such parangs generally aka Parang Pamangkas or Parang Kemoedi Singkir. - Prior to c.1860, red-painted parang-njaboers ( Baladaw Balabang ) were worn by outer-perimeter palace-guards. Best, Last edited by Amuk Murugul; 25th October 2014 at 08:43 PM. Reason: 'touch-up'

9th January 2015, 06:34 AM	#5
Amuk Murugul Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Kaboejoetan Galoenggoeng Mélben Posts: 460	Brother-In-Arms Just for the sake of completeness: Pedang Salin Alai Waloet & Pedang Salin Alai Balanak respectively: Attached Images Last edited by Amuk Murugul; 9th January 2015 at 06:49 AM.

9th January 2015, 07:52 AM	#6
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Amuk, It's interesting to see all slight variations of the same sword in one thread but what is the purpose of that you are giving each variation a modern Indonesian name? I am also a bit perplexed that you are using the general term "Parang Njaboer" for some of them. From where does this term come and what does it mean? What is the difference in your chart between the "Parang Njaboer" and the "Baladaw Balabang", except dress materials and (mostly) age? "Prior to c.1860, red-painted parang-njaboers ( Baladaw Balabang ) were worn by outer-perimeter palace-guards." Could you please develop this interesting information - which palace, what source and why prior to 1860? Did they stop making them after c. 1860, so the scabbard is an exact age indicator? Why haven't you included the Banjar Jenawi in this list (enclosed)? Michael Attached Images

15th November 2015, 05:21 AM	#7
Amuk Murugul Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Kaboejoetan Galoenggoeng Mélben Posts: 460	A PRECURSOR ..... Hullo everybody! Pedang Parang Lais (c1800): LxOALxWxT=46x57x2.06x1.09cm. Enjoy! Best, Attached Images Last edited by Amuk Murugul; 15th November 2015 at 05:34 AM. Reason: added info

15th November 2015, 02:31 PM	#8
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	I might be missing a point, but what was the basis of such a classification? Size? Handle? Contour of the point? Contour of the blade? Color of the scabbard? What " differences in the basic shape " are important? Are we talking about real issues of construction or just about local monikers of the same sword? I do love Parang Naburs and would love to really understand them. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=nimcha For example: would you refer to it as. Lais type? Help me out. Thanks. Last edited by ariel; 15th November 2015 at 02:47 PM.

15th November 2015, 04:35 PM	#9
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,183	my parang nabur (Beladah Belabang) Attached Images

15th November 2015, 09:28 PM	#11
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,183	Krom zwaard met gemene scherpe punt en bloedgeul="Scimitar with a nasty sharp point and blood groove". (really. no such thing as 'blood grooves', they're 'fullers' in english, a device to lighten a blade without losing rigidity. in the words of the immortal bard, crocodile dundee, that's not a dutchy sabel/klewang, THIS is a dutchy sabel/klewang: . the dutch ARE fond of the clipped points on their sabels. premise: jim bowie (boo-ee) was a dutchman. discuss. Attached Images Last edited by kronckew; 15th November 2015 at 09:50 PM.

23rd November 2015, 08:10 PM	#12
Maurice Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,346	Hi Amuk, Could you please spend some time in answering Michaels questions, as I also would like to know and am curious about the names you use in your "recognition chart"? I suppose you have the names from the Leiden database, as I noticed some years ago that they use names like you are mentioning for these beladah belabang types from Negara/Bandjermassin area. Or are these later terms they are used to call them nowadays? Best regards, Maurice

8th January 2016, 02:28 AM	#13
Amuk Murugul Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Kaboejoetan Galoenggoeng Mélben Posts: 460	Old School: ..... a CLASSIC! Hullo everybody! To share, for your enjoyment/info. Type: Parang Tjarangasoka. Name: Masih Bandjar. Blade: LxOALxWxT=56x68x4.75x0.99cm. Handle: Wood w/ silver ftgs. (Before anyone asks; it IS a Lais) Synonyms: Parang Nyabur , Parang Nyabor , Parang Niabur , Parang Nabur Best, Attached Images Last edited by Amuk Murugul; 8th January 2016 at 04:26 AM. Reason: added info.

8th January 2016, 02:35 AM	#14
Amuk Murugul Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Kaboejoetan Galoenggoeng Mélben Posts: 460	BELATED answers ..... Ariel, - Basis of classification is simply the general shape of the blade. - 'What " differences in the basic shape " are important? Are we talking about real issues of construction or just about local monikers of the same sword?’ It’s like asking: What’s the difference between a Tilam Upih and a Tilam Sari keris. - 'For example: would you refer to it as. Lais type?’ No, I would not refer to it as a Lais type. Maurice, -'I suppose you have the names from the Leiden database, as I noticed some years ago that they use names like you are mentioning for these beladah belabang types from Negara/Bandjermassin area. Or are these later terms they are used to call them nowadays?’ I do my own research to my own satisfaction. ‘Beladah Belabang’ is not a term I recognise; it is meaningless to me. Michael, - 'It's interesting to see all slight variations of the same sword in one thread but what is the purpose of that you are giving each variation a modern Indonesian name?’ While the words may look Indo, they aren’t; after all, Indo is a derivative of a much older language. - 'I am also a bit perplexed that you are using the general term "Parang Njaboer" for some of them. From where does this term come and what does it mean?’ I use the term for all the above parangs; the exception being the Pedang Parang, which is a parang-like blade kitted as a pedang and thus much lighter. Njaboer comes from the old word ‘aboer’, meaning panic/desolation. Thus Parang Njaboer is a parang which causes a state of panic/desolation/confusion resulting from war. - Baladaw Balabang means ‘knife of red soldier/guard-house’. When one speaks of Parang Njaboer/Naboer, it implies southern Kalamantan and the Bandjar. - Bandjar Djenawi is a pedang, not a parang. Best,

8th January 2016, 04:35 AM	#15
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,892	Amuk, I am finding this thread very interesting, and I thank you for taking the time and effort to place this information before us. I have only a slight interest in the weapons being discussed here, but I do have a very high level of interest in language and its use. Because of this, I am having some difficulty with some of the information you are presenting. Could I impose upon you to identify the language, or languages that you are drawing upon for translation of the names you provide? For instance, the word "nyaboer" (nyabur). Could you please advise what language you have drawn this word from for your translation? In formal B.I. there are several words that could be identified as the root word for nyabur; in Javanese there is at least one word, probably more; in formal Malay there is at least one word, probably more Perhaps you are not drawing upon any of these languages ? Perhaps you are drawing upon a dialect, or some other mainstream language? I really would appreciate it if you could clarify this matter for me. Thanks.