Swiss Flintlock

Jon MB · 2nd April 2018, 04:40 PM

Hello All,

For your consideration, a Swiss flintlock of Belgian manufacture, with markings from Canton of Aargau.

Maybe an Ordonnanz 1817 type, looks similar to French 1777 types.

Jon MB · 2nd April 2018, 04:41 PM

some more pics

Jon MB · 2nd April 2018, 04:43 PM

and

Jon MB · 2nd April 2018, 07:04 PM

The modern miracle, if slightly wobbly, of Google Translate:

"Flintlock Ordonnanz 1817
An actual Ordonnanzgewehr 1817 does not exist. Around 1816, the guidelines were generously set in order to prevent any rearmament of the cantonal troops after the end of Napoleon's rule in the way. Under the name Ordonnanzgewehr 1817 you could find a variety of models. The most common was the French rifle 1777/1800, which acquired many cantons from France's holdings. The present rifle was made in 1824 and has a caliber of 18mm. With his naughty run, the accuracy was less than 100 meters. The big picture shows the flintlock (to the shot was in the cock a flint screwed, which struck at the pan against spark to the ignition)."

http://www.1861.ch/pages/seitelangwaffen.htm

Jon MB · 2nd April 2018, 07:07 PM

Here is another example, from the Canton of Vaud.

http://www.tircollection.com/t7783-f...onal-type-1777

DaleH · 3rd April 2018, 01:48 AM

Very nice - great pictures!

corrado26 · 3rd April 2018, 02:51 PM

and here the same gun made for Neuchâtel
corrado26

Jon MB · 3rd April 2018, 03:18 PM

Many thanks Corrado! Would be great to find more examples...

Jon MB · 3rd April 2018, 03:24 PM

"Steinschlossgewehr, Ord. 1817, Kt. Luzern mit nicht nummergleichem Bajonett, Kal. 18 mm, #621, Zustand: D+ [ANT]"

https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/45021516_flintlock-musket-swiss-ordnance-1817

corrado26 · 3rd April 2018, 05:17 PM

ok, here is a gun of the "Kanton Basel"
corrado26

Jon MB · 3rd April 2018, 05:48 PM

Thanks Corrado, nice resource we are compiling here.

This one also allegedly Swiss.

http://www.tircollection.com/t21523-...en-pensez-vous

Jon MB · 4th April 2018, 01:03 AM

A Canton of Lucerne example.

http://www.gelain.net/fr/node/20

Jon MB · 4th April 2018, 01:21 AM

This is the Belgian 1777 model, copied from the French. This is the same as the one at the start of the thread, except that one has had Swiss arsenal numbers added and the cantonal mark made on the stock.

The gun shown here is purely Belgian.
http://gelain.net/fr/node/19

As noted elsewhere, Switzerland was not manufacturing her own arms at this time and many cantons used existing stocks of French weapons left from Swiss involvement in the Napoleonic wars, or some cantons imported the affordable Belgian weapons.

In an attempt to bring some order to the situation, the Ordonnanz 1817 sought to define the specs of what were essentially 1777 muskets.

This is what I have picked up along the way, I'll try to add some references.

rickystl · 7th April 2018, 08:07 PM

Nice piece Jon. These French style muskets must have been popular with the troops. The 1777 seems to have been widely copied. Even the U.S. Springfield 1795/1816 was copied after these French muskets.

Rick

corrado26 · 8th April 2018, 12:26 PM

It might be interesting to know that this French infantry gun M 1777 corrigé an 9 was the first really mass produced military weapon of the world: Between 1804 and 1820 more than 2 million of these guns have been built in France (Charleville, Mutzig, St. Etienne, Maubeuge,) Italy (Turin, Naples, Brescia) Belgium (Liège) and Germany (Suhl, Herzberg, Schmalkalden, St.Blasien)
corrado26

2nd April 2018, 04:40 PM	#1
Jon MB Member Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 143	Swiss Flintlock Hello All, For your consideration, a Swiss flintlock of Belgian manufacture, with markings from Canton of Aargau. Maybe an Ordonnanz 1817 type, looks similar to French 1777 types. Attached Images Last edited by Jon MB; 2nd April 2018 at 04:53 PM.

2nd April 2018, 04:41 PM	#2
Jon MB Member Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 143	some more pics Attached Images Last edited by Jon MB; 3rd April 2018 at 03:30 PM.

2nd April 2018, 04:43 PM	#3
Jon MB Member Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 143	and Attached Images Last edited by Jon MB; 3rd April 2018 at 03:31 PM.

2nd April 2018, 07:04 PM	#4
Jon MB Member Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 143	The modern miracle, if slightly wobbly, of Google Translate: "Flintlock Ordonnanz 1817 An actual Ordonnanzgewehr 1817 does not exist. Around 1816, the guidelines were generously set in order to prevent any rearmament of the cantonal troops after the end of Napoleon's rule in the way. Under the name Ordonnanzgewehr 1817 you could find a variety of models. The most common was the French rifle 1777/1800, which acquired many cantons from France's holdings. The present rifle was made in 1824 and has a caliber of 18mm. With his naughty run, the accuracy was less than 100 meters. The big picture shows the flintlock (to the shot was in the cock a flint screwed, which struck at the pan against spark to the ignition)." http://www.1861.ch/pages/seitelangwaffen.htm Attached Images Last edited by Jon MB; 2nd April 2018 at 09:18 PM.

2nd April 2018, 07:07 PM	#5
Jon MB Member Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 143	Here is another example, from the Canton of Vaud. http://www.tircollection.com/t7783-f...onal-type-1777 Attached Images Last edited by Jon MB; 2nd April 2018 at 09:20 PM.

3rd April 2018, 01:48 AM	#6
DaleH Member Join Date: Mar 2018 Location: near Boston - USA Posts: 11	Very nice - great pictures!

3rd April 2018, 02:51 PM	#7
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,204	and here the same gun made for Neuchâtel corrado26 Attached Images

3rd April 2018, 03:18 PM	#8
Jon MB Member Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 143	Many thanks Corrado! Would be great to find more examples...

3rd April 2018, 03:24 PM	#9
Jon MB Member Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 143	"Steinschlossgewehr, Ord. 1817, Kt. Luzern mit nicht nummergleichem Bajonett, Kal. 18 mm, #621, Zustand: D+ [ANT]" https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/45021516_flintlock-musket-swiss-ordnance-1817 Attached Images

3rd April 2018, 05:17 PM	#10
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,204	ok, here is a gun of the "Kanton Basel" corrado26 Attached Images

3rd April 2018, 05:48 PM	#11
Jon MB Member Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 143	Thanks Corrado, nice resource we are compiling here. This one also allegedly Swiss. http://www.tircollection.com/t21523-...en-pensez-vous Attached Images Last edited by Jon MB; 3rd April 2018 at 08:05 PM.

4th April 2018, 01:03 AM	#12
Jon MB Member Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 143	A Canton of Lucerne example. http://www.gelain.net/fr/node/20 Attached Images

4th April 2018, 01:21 AM	#13
Jon MB Member Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 143	This is the Belgian 1777 model, copied from the French. This is the same as the one at the start of the thread, except that one has had Swiss arsenal numbers added and the cantonal mark made on the stock. The gun shown here is purely Belgian. http://gelain.net/fr/node/19 As noted elsewhere, Switzerland was not manufacturing her own arms at this time and many cantons used existing stocks of French weapons left from Swiss involvement in the Napoleonic wars, or some cantons imported the affordable Belgian weapons. In an attempt to bring some order to the situation, the Ordonnanz 1817 sought to define the specs of what were essentially 1777 muskets. This is what I have picked up along the way, I'll try to add some references. Attached Images

7th April 2018, 08:07 PM	#14
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,623	Nice piece Jon. These French style muskets must have been popular with the troops. The 1777 seems to have been widely copied. Even the U.S. Springfield 1795/1816 was copied after these French muskets. Rick

8th April 2018, 12:26 PM	#15
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,204	It might be interesting to know that this French infantry gun M 1777 corrigé an 9 was the first really mass produced military weapon of the world: Between 1804 and 1820 more than 2 million of these guns have been built in France (Charleville, Mutzig, St. Etienne, Maubeuge,) Italy (Turin, Naples, Brescia) Belgium (Liège) and Germany (Suhl, Herzberg, Schmalkalden, St.Blasien) corrado26