A challenge ... what would this be?

[fernando]

The seller doesn't know ... and neither do i
It is in wood and about 5" long.
Any guess, Gentlemen?

Fernando

.

[David]

Originally Posted by fernando

The seller doesn't know ... and neither do i
It is in wood and about 5" long.
Any guess, Gentlemen?

Fernando

.

Why it's the Holy Slingshot of Antioch!

[Rick]

Originally Posted by David

Why it's the Holy Slingshot of Antioch!

I'm trying really hard not to ROFL David ..

[Jim McDougall]

Hi Fernando,
You are the master of esoteric acquisitions!
Without context or any note of provenance, it would of course be really hard to say exactly what this might be, but the crosses would suggest the obvious Christian associations, and this would possibly be a votive of some kind. Such items were often created in symbolic images, but at this point it would be tough to guess.

All the best,
Jim

[fernando]

Originally Posted by David

Why it's the Holy Slingshot of Antioch!

Brilliant, David
Why didn't i think of that, in the first place?
... used by the priest to throw the communion wafers into the congregants mouths; good to avoid H1N1 contamination .
Fernando

[fernando]

Hi Jim,
Thanks for the hint .
No, no context or provenance, except that this is a Christian influenced region and, as you well suggest, the crosses are a symbolic reminder.
Only i think they are just alegoric and the object might as well be some kind of utensil, not necessarily with a direct connection to religious paraphernalia.
Fernando

[fernando]

Hi Rick,

Originally Posted by Rick

I'm trying really hard not to ROFL David ..

Initials are tricky for a non english dominant .
Is this the meaning?





Fernando

[Rick]

Hi Fernando,
You are correct Sir .
I needed to laugh a bit last night; my apologies .

Do we have an origin for this piece ?

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Rick

... my apologies . ...

Apologies? now i am worried

Originally Posted by Rick

... Do we have an origin for this piece ?

No; i will have to ask the seller, although most probably he has bought it in a street fair and will not help

Fernando

[Jeff Pringle]

I theorize that it is a lucet, a device used for making cord for the last thousand years…size and shape seem about right, as does the wear polish…

[Bryan.H]

I saw this on Fagan's militaria site... he describes it as a Sudanese War club (?)



alternatively, it could just as easily be an ancient egyptian can opener.

[colin henshaw]

It does have a bit of an African look, so with the Christian imagery, this would point to Highland Ethiopia. Ethiopian priests did carry hand crosses in procession usually made of metal...

Just a guess

[roanoa]

Let's avoid making silly comments about religious practises, such as Holy Communion, which I for one take quite seriously. Having said that, I believe this is an Ethiopian SISTRUM. It is missing the top part with the metal disks.

[fearn]

Hi Roanoa,

Do you have an example sistrum that looks like this? Most of the "ethiopian" sistrums shown on Google have much thinner uprights, and I'd expect to see holes drilled through it to hold the disks if it was a sistrum.

Neat object. I didn't know what a lucet was until Jeff brought it up.

Best,

F

[roanoa]

I looked up Google Images for "lucet" and there is indeed a strong similarity, though there is no hole beneath the "fork". The reason why I suggested a sistrum is because of the religious symbols. A simple string could be tied to the fork and there really is no need for holes to be drilled. Again, on Google Images I found a "How to make a sistrum" with a wooden fork and a string (plus the metal disks). So I still believe it is a possibility, though, of corse, I cannot be sure....

[kronckew]

not all the lucets i saw in the internet had holes. i'm tending towards that option. even monks or nuns would have done something like lucetting to occupy their time and make useful cords.

of course, it is also likely to be a plumber's tool.

[David]

Originally Posted by kronckew

not all the lucets i saw in the internet had holes. i'm tending towards that option. even monks or nuns would have done something like lucetting to occupy their time and make useful cords.

of course, it is also likely to be a plumber's tool.

True, there are quite a few lucets in googles images that do not have holes in them, but what most of them do seem to have in common is that they bow outward at the top of the forks to keep the string or rope on the forks while working. Fernando's example does not do this, infact the forks seem to angle in slightly and i think the rope would be likely to slip off, so i don't think this is a lucet.
I am also dubious about whether it is a weapon of any kind.

[David]

Originally Posted by roanoa

I looked up Google Images for "lucet" and there is indeed a strong similarity, though there is no hole beneath the "fork". The reason why I suggested a sistrum is because of the religious symbols. A simple string could be tied to the fork and there really is no need for holes to be drilled. Again, on Google Images I found a "How to make a sistrum" with a wooden fork and a string (plus the metal disks). So I still believe it is a possibility, though, of corse, I cannot be sure....

I don't think this is a sistrum either. Sure you can make one out of it by stringing disks, but i can discern no wear where the strings would have been, nor do i see any wear where the disks would have no doubt struck on the inside of the forks when in use.

[Tim Simmons]

Looks like a pious persons knitting or lace making tool? I think it is most probably European. If it was from Yorkshire it would be worth an awful lot of money.

[fernando]

Originally Posted by roanoa

Let's avoid making silly comments about religious practises, such as Holy Communion, which I for one take quite seriously...

No need to be fundamentalist, roanoa . We are joking here; considering a good faith piece of humor a silly coment, it's a remark that deserves no better classification .

Originally Posted by roanoa

...Having said that, I believe this is an Ethiopian SISTRUM. It is missing the op part with the metal disks.

I find it very hard to be a sistrum, and i don't think it is missing any attachement; there is no marks sugesting so.
BTW, did you know that the sistrum, provenant from the egiptian cult to Isis, was forbidden in the VI century Concilium?
So true that it maintained its existence with Copta Christianism until present days.
Fernando

[fernando]

Thank you all for your sugestions, Gentlemen.
This exercize of trying to find out what an unkown thing is, can be a fascinating theme, specially because of the variety of sugestions put up.
So far we have a lucet, a slingshot ( ), a plumbers tool, a hand cross, and a war club ( ).
Although the lucet seems to be the closest sugestion, i don't think it is one; but i am not based in any evidence to so think.
I could swear it is not from Yorkshire ; i am more certain of that than of the eventualy that it might be a weapon .

Fernando.

[tribalarms]

Could it be a distaff?

[David]

Originally Posted by fernando

So far we have a lucet, a slingshot ( ), a plumbers tool, a hand cross, and a war club ( ).

Don't forgets Jim's suggestion of a votive, which i have not discounted yet. In fact, for me right now it seems the most likely.

[kronckew]

the 'plumbers tool' was a reference to the other thread about a lead headed cane whose explanation varied from trench club to rabbit throwing stick and turned out to be a plumbing tool used to bang out dents in lead pipes.

in other words, keep your options open, it could be anything. probably something not mentioned that was in common use way back but is not now.

5 inches is a bit short for a war club i suspect.

[fernando]

Originally Posted by David

Don't forget Jim's suggestion of a votive, which i have not discounted yet. In fact, for me right now it seems the most likely.

My uggly fault, David ... shame on me .
Yes Jim, also a sugestion to consider; i must honestly confess, though, that i still don't see light in the end of the tunnel .
Thank's a lot all the same.
Fernando

[fernando]

Originally Posted by tribalarms

Could it be a distaff?

Also an hypothesis not to discard.
But with those conical prongs, wouldn't the yarn slip away?
Fernando

[Rick]

My Wife who spins, knits, and is a high end Seamstress says it is too small to be a distaff .

On my computer screen 'Nando's full shot of this device renders larger than it actually is .

[fearn]

The more I look at this, the more I become interested in the details.

For instance, the area between the two uprights appears to be carved down to an edge, and the supports for the uprights have those grooves which appear to be lined up.

There are a couple of possibilities. Either it's a tool, in which case the details are functionally significant, or it's some sort of symbolic item. In the later case, it's pretty clearly Christian, but I keep seeing some sort of "devil's horn" gesture in the uprights, combined with the three crosses, that makes me skeptical.

I don't have an answer, but despite what Rick's wife says, I keep coming back to something associated with thread or yarn-making. Something associated with a spinning wheel? Given the wood construction and lack of wear, if it was a tool, it pretty definitely had to be used for manipulating soft materials like thread, yarn, cord, or cloth.

Best,

F

[Emanuel]

At 5" tall, there aren't many things it can be. Small, must be portable. Decorated, personalized to the owner's taste. Something that would be used more or less commonly. The two horns look worn down, the surface is smooth from handling. Must have been held in the hand, subject to a fair bit of rubbing. I could see it used in weaving of some sort. A type of weaving comb?

Lucet seems most likely, not all have holes - see pic below.

Thoughts...

Emanuel

[fearn]

Hi Emanuel,

Interesting problem with the lucet theory: the edges of the piece. None of the lucet images I've seen have smooth, rounded edges, not bevels and grooves. As others noted, they also tend to have swelled ends and narrow arm bases, presumably to keep the yarns on the lucet.

While I don't have a better candidate, I'm not convinced yet.

Best,

F