A combined flint and percussion gun.

Raf · 7th January 2014, 10:53 AM

I recently had the opportunity to examine in detail this extremely rare combined flint and percussion gun. The lock is marked Jones, which is assumed to be Charles Jones of 26 St James Street London. His known patents include a waterproof percussion lock and a 10 shot percussion pistol of eccentric design. As can be seen from the illustrations the flint cocks have percussion hammers to the inside face of the cock with conventional percussion nipples to the breech block. What is not immediately apparent are the small bolt like cut offs interposed between the lock and the platinum lined touch holes which are manually operated to switch between flint or percussion ignition.
Another obvious eccentricity is the brass reinforce to the stock, which forms the receiver for the locks. Something one might consider useful in so far as it prevents damage to the stock when removing the locks but which I have not personally seen before.

Which raises the interesting question of date. Although the later to become ubiquitous percussion cap system was proposed as early as 1815 it does not become common until much later. We could argue that a combined flint and percussion system might have been considered desirable for someone whose business took them abroad where the supply of percussion caps was uncertain . But one could also argue, on the evidence of the flintlocks, that this was an experimental gun using a very early example of the percussion cap that was not as yet commonly available; hence the combined system. There are other relatively minor oddities that suggest an experimental design in anticipation of a patent, such as the concentric ribbing on the percussion nipples, presumably to help the cap stay in place. An escutcheon on the stock has the initials C. J so the possibility that this maybe Charles Jones personal gun cannot be entirely discounted.

fernando · 7th January 2014, 02:01 PM

Hi Raf

Thanks for sharing this one ... even though shotguns are not my beach

.
Fascinating & smart solution/s ... which i would not call eccentric but rather 'concentric'.

A gun worthy of its inventor owner, no doubt.

Raf · 7th January 2014, 05:48 PM

You have obviously done the research. By concentric I assume you mean "Also Inventor & Manufacturer of the Patent Waterproof Locks with Concentric Sears & Triggers.” Although I am not at all sure what a concentric sear and trigger is. It only occurred to me after posting that Jones original idea might have been for a gun with separate interchangeable flint and percussion locks which might explain the brass lock receivers.

Raf · 7th January 2014, 05:55 PM

Sorry; post duplicated in error.

fernando · 7th January 2014, 06:43 PM

No, i will be honest

.
I was playing with words, thinking that in geometry eccentric is the opposite of concentric. In this case trying to oppose eccentric (lunatic) to very conscient, which is something this guy was, specialy judging by what you told about his capacities.
Just a coincidence the term quoted in his 'concentric' sears, which i wouldn't know what it is either.

7th January 2014, 10:53 AM	#1
Raf Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 252	A combined flint and percussion gun. I recently had the opportunity to examine in detail this extremely rare combined flint and percussion gun. The lock is marked Jones, which is assumed to be Charles Jones of 26 St James Street London. His known patents include a waterproof percussion lock and a 10 shot percussion pistol of eccentric design. As can be seen from the illustrations the flint cocks have percussion hammers to the inside face of the cock with conventional percussion nipples to the breech block. What is not immediately apparent are the small bolt like cut offs interposed between the lock and the platinum lined touch holes which are manually operated to switch between flint or percussion ignition. Another obvious eccentricity is the brass reinforce to the stock, which forms the receiver for the locks. Something one might consider useful in so far as it prevents damage to the stock when removing the locks but which I have not personally seen before. Which raises the interesting question of date. Although the later to become ubiquitous percussion cap system was proposed as early as 1815 it does not become common until much later. We could argue that a combined flint and percussion system might have been considered desirable for someone whose business took them abroad where the supply of percussion caps was uncertain . But one could also argue, on the evidence of the flintlocks, that this was an experimental gun using a very early example of the percussion cap that was not as yet commonly available; hence the combined system. There are other relatively minor oddities that suggest an experimental design in anticipation of a patent, such as the concentric ribbing on the percussion nipples, presumably to help the cap stay in place. An escutcheon on the stock has the initials C. J so the possibility that this maybe Charles Jones personal gun cannot be entirely discounted. Attached Images Last edited by Raf; 7th January 2014 at 11:49 AM.

7th January 2014, 05:55 PM	#4
Raf Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 252	Sorry; post duplicated in error. Last edited by Raf; 7th January 2014 at 06:43 PM.

7th January 2014, 02:01 PM	#2
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Hi Raf Thanks for sharing this one ... even though shotguns are not my beach . Fascinating & smart solution/s ... which i would not call eccentric but rather 'concentric'. A gun worthy of its inventor owner, no doubt.

7th January 2014, 05:48 PM	#3
Raf Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 252	You have obviously done the research. By concentric I assume you mean "Also Inventor & Manufacturer of the Patent Waterproof Locks with Concentric Sears & Triggers.” Although I am not at all sure what a concentric sear and trigger is. It only occurred to me after posting that Jones original idea might have been for a gun with separate interchangeable flint and percussion locks which might explain the brass lock receivers.

7th January 2014, 06:43 PM	#5
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	No, i will be honest . I was playing with words, thinking that in geometry eccentric is the opposite of concentric. In this case trying to oppose eccentric (lunatic) to very conscient, which is something this guy was, specialy judging by what you told about his capacities. Just a coincidence the term quoted in his 'concentric' sears, which i wouldn't know what it is either.