Brass dots on a blade??

[Steve]

Hi Guys,
I've just received an old jambiya from the Hadhramaut in Yemen and it has three brass spots on each side of the central ridge forged into the blade. This is the only one I've ever seen from Yemen like this.
I've seen this before in blades from China/Tibet/Nepal. Maybe other countries?
I've never understood why they're there and what this means for my jambiya blade?? what do you think?
All contributions welcomed.

Thanks, Steve

[Jim McDougall]

Nice example of a good working janbiyya Steve, still an important element of a tribesmans accoutrements.
I think these dots in this configuration have turned up before on janbiyya but cannot recall specifics.
The placing of brass or gold metal dots has evolved from relatively ancient practice of doing so with either bronze or gold inlay or latten, a gold alloy from early Frankish blades. In these cases the finished blade had either symbols inlaid, or even sometimes simply a gold nail. The practice has become well known in North Africa, Arabia, India, even in a number of other settings, perhaps an influence diffused through trade.

In India, it is believed that the practice, often with single strategically placed dots might have apotropaic properties toward the iron in the blade. In many other cases where there are multiple dots, often in threes, these represent the trimurti, or trinity of three, often key in many Faiths. Perhaps these paired triple dots are placed as dual representation of that configuration.
I would suppose that as good a place to start as any.

Whether the numeric configurations have certain tribal significance would be hard to say, and hopefully our guys well versed in Arabian weapons and daggers might have details...Lew, Michael?

All the best,
Jim

[Battara]

Is the hilt made of rhino horn?

[Steve]

Hi, yes the hilt is made from rhino horn. Quite old and I've had to fill some worm holes to keep it all together. The chinese imitation of rhino horn is now very, very good. It even has the texture right.

Thanks Jim, as always, for your thoughts on the brass spots. A little more research has filled in that the chinese jian swords often have these dots, seven of them as representing the "big dipper" in the great Bear constellation. This is evidently important in martial arts, possibly relating to an ancient historic warrior who carried a sword with that pattern. So its mystic and decorative.
Evidently, they are also found on the Barong. Probably made by chinese smiths who work in the Philippines.

As this is extremely rare in the southern arabian peninsula, I am wondering if the blade was imported from, say, India?
I am interested if there are other opinions??
steve

[Jim McDougall]

Hi Steve,
Thank you for acknowledging my post, and very good points you make on the brass dots in Chinese weapons. I really dont believe the blade is from India, the jambiyya blades I believe were typically made locally even as trade blades prevailed for swords. Daggers are a much more personal weapon, and this is in my opinion why they dont carry a lot of the variety of markings seen on sword blades. Obviously there tend to be more in the way of inscriptions and the like, but usually they do not have makers cartouche etc.

All the best,
Jim

[Steve]

Jim and others,
There's not much more to add except that a local contact in Yemen tells me "the dotted blade is very rare and the dots are supposed to signify the kills the blade has had. Evidently the dots are in what is known as the "poison" area of the blade". This is as told to him.

[Ron Anderson]

Hi Steve

That does sound a bit like a myth to me.

I frequently hear this on all sorts of weapons. Something represents the number of people killed. And usually this is not factual. Usually, this is simply a myth.

I've heard it on some Indo-persian weapons, where a hole in the blade was said to represent a kill, but that turned out to be nonsense. And I've heard it on other things here and there too.

I can't tell you much about these dots, but they look very symmetical – a designed element. And I think it's unlikely they would be there to designate a head count.

I suspect people tend to get carried away with unlikely stories on swords and knives.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Steve

Jim and others,
There's not much more to add except that a local contact in Yemen tells me "the dotted blade is very rare and the dots are supposed to signify the kills the blade has had. Evidently the dots are in what is known as the "poison" area of the blade". This is as told to him.

Hi Steve,
As Ron well notes, recording 'kills' on blades is pure myth...and perhaps the individual suggesting this may be thinking of one of the many 'gunfighter myths' with notches in the handle of thier guns. This too is pure fantasy of course
In many cases the blade itself may be considered poison or evil in the sense that iron and steel were in many cases in religious beliefs. It is the blade that causes death in that perspective and the gold metal in that position would intervene to protect the person using the weapon. These same type beliefs are well known in North Africa, leading to the use of brass on forms of Tuareg hilts or thier being covered with leather, to prevent the hand from touching the iron. The Hindu's use brass in much the same manner for hilts in many cases.

The seven star groupings are indeed associated with the celestial aspects of Chinese religion and tradition noting the constellation 'big dipper' but also have to do with a fabled blade making area in China which I believe was known as the 'seven wells'. I cannot recall details offhand, but I believe this was in a manner of thinking, comparable to Solingen in the high quality of the blades. As I add this from memory alone I hope that is somewhat correct, and look forward to corrections as need be.

As I mentioned, the use of a gold nail or inlay in blades as early as Frankish times were placed to attest to the quality or perhaps imbue talismanic properties as mentioned. This was well known in the Arab world as well, and was noted in al Kindi.

The janbiyya is a key element of status and tradition in Arabia, and the use of rhino horn is a prevalent part of the weapon for its imbued properties as well. While simple in appearance, this dagger may have carried important value to its owner and likely served as a vital part of his persona in perspectives held dearly in his culture. Even weapons considered tourist wares are sometimes intended for local purposes I would presume, and would find use accordingly.

Best regards,
Jim

[Michael Blalock]

That's a really nice Jambiya Steve. I tend to think the gold or brass dots are a talismanic symbol or makers mark, the origins of which are long ago lost in the mists of time. There is definately something mystical about the concept of piercing a steel blade that would make this an appealing decoration to this day.

[Steve]

Thanks Guys, I agree that the dots are probably a talisman or makers mark, however I always love those notch on the bedpost stories. If anyone comes up with photos of similar decorations on arab blades I'd be interested to have a look.
Steve

[Gavin Nugent]

Originally Posted by Steve

As this is extremely rare in the southern arabian peninsula, I am wondering if the blade was imported from, say, India?
I am interested if there are other opinions??
steve

Hi Steve,

Purely speculation but I'd support India as this piece came from a very old collection of Indian only weapons.

Gav

[Jim McDougall]

That makes perfect sense actually Gav, as the janbiyya was by no means restricted to Arabia alone, and found use, sometimes in varying hilts and blade types throughout the Islamic World. The Arab trade on the entire west coast of India would of course be likely, and the three dot configurations are well known on tulwars and many Indian weapons as representative of the Trimurti.

All the best,
Jim

[Steve]

Thanks for the input at the end there, Gav and Jim. I think what I've got is certainly an Hadhrami rhino hilt wedded, probably, to an Indian blade. From Gav's comment it would make sense if the ceremony took place in India. After looking at 100's of yemeni blades it's the only one I've seen with this type of decoration. Thanks again, Steve

[Jim McDougall]

Hi Steve,
You are most welcome, and I think you're spot on in the application of the dots probably going on in India. It has always seemed to me that dagger blades were the one edged weapon constant in Arabia, while sword blades gave way to imports. Naturally the profound settlement of Arabs in India would establish those artisans there as well.

The trimurti configuration on Indian blades often appears on strategic locations on blades, such as at terminus of fullers, blade root and the like, so it would seem that the placement here is for specific purpose. As always the application of marks, symbols and certain motif is often only temporally known by the individual making them or requesting them placed on the weapon. I would imagine in this location on your janbiyya, these are placed talismanically to prevent effects from the negative forces of the iron in the blade or if used, from the victim. Perhaps this might explain the 'poison' in the blade story.

I think this interesting janbiyya is an excellent example of how even the simplest appearing weapon can be an entirely fascinating example of ethnographica full of exciting tales. Very nice!

All the best,
Jim

[archer]

Hi Steve, Here's another one dots are not the same size? They appear to be copper. the components could older than the blade.

Steve

[David R]

I have a Syrian dagger with the three dot inlay in copper, in addition to two teardrops in yellow metal and two plain large dots in copper, all arranged symetricaly down the blade . They could have a meaning, but then again, they could be just simple decoration.
I think in some cases, a single nail/rivit at random, they are just a way of hiding a flaw in the blade.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Ive seen many khanjars and a few old Omani battle swords (turned down quillons / spiked pommel broad short blade) with the dot or three dots. I also collect Omani Chests many brass studded and brass plated and the story of brass reflecting evil is applicable there. Islamic belief (which is likely to be a pre Islamic structure) has it that Iron attracts Evil whilst gold or brass repels it. Its only rarely seen now in Omani blades but I do go with that idea. On the other hand it could have been a jolly good way to have the blades appear as more expensive..

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Ive seen many khanjars and a few old Omani battle swords (turned down quillons / spiked pommel broad short blade) with the dot or three dots. I also collect Omani Chests many brass studded and brass plated and the story of brass reflecting evil is applicable there. Islamic belief (which is likely to be a pre Islamic structure) has it that Iron attracts Evil whilst gold or brass repels it. Its only rarely seen now in Omani blades but I do go with that idea. On the other hand it could have been a jolly good way to have the blades appear as more expensive..

Outstanding Ibrahiim! Thank you for the input on this interesting topic. This was a most interesting discussion and your bringing it back up with such well placed observations is gratefully appreciated. Having insight directly from Oman really gives sound perspective.

All the best,
Jim

[Steve]

Thanks guys for raising this again and thanks Ibrahiim, I would also go with your assessment on the use of the brass dots in these blades. It's probably a technique imported from further east - india or china - I would say.
Issue solved I think,
Steve

[regihis]

the kindjal is clearly inspired by the shark teeth, coincidentally, Oman and Yemen are countries where the culture of the people is linked to the sea. Maybe before the age of metals used as shark teeth knife ..

[Gavin Nugent]

Originally Posted by Steve

Thanks for the input at the end there, Gav and Jim. I think what I've got is certainly an Hadhrami rhino hilt wedded, probably, to an Indian blade. From Gav's comment it would make sense if the ceremony took place in India. After looking at 100's of yemeni blades it's the only one I've seen with this type of decoration. Thanks again, Steve

Speculatively speaking, as the collection as a whole appeared to be from the North western frontiers of India, could the blade be from the Afghan regions and the dots represent Timurs banner?

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Steve

Thanks guys for raising this again and thanks Ibrahiim, I would also go with your assessment on the use of the brass dots in these blades. It's probably a technique imported from further east - india or china - I would say.
Issue solved I think,
Steve

In researching the Old Omani Short Battle Sword ~ One sword reference appears with a gold dot in mid blade ... The Abbasid 9th Century Sword in The Topkapi Museum ! This dot (as I point out in my latest stab at origins of the Omani Short Sword) can be seen on the Old Omani weapons and on a few Khanjar blades and Yemeni variants though in brass... the cheap equivalent .