Puzzling greneng works

Alam Shah · 19th July 2007, 03:37 AM

The greneng, as we know it is on the left side of the tapering base of the keris.
Could anyone give pointers on what this represents?

David · 19th July 2007, 04:22 AM

That is cool and unusual Shahrial. Any chance we could see the whole blade?

A. G. Maisey · 19th July 2007, 04:35 AM

Looks to me like somebody got carried away by his muse.

Newsteel · 19th July 2007, 04:37 AM

Yup, the whole blade please. That greneng is uncommon. But often we found that on sundang keris meant for high status person.

Alam Shah · 19th July 2007, 05:30 AM

Here's the full blade. You can also see it here...
http://alamshah.fotopic.net/c1047834.html

David · 19th July 2007, 06:03 PM

Thanks Shahrial. I like the overall look of this blade. The gandik area seems a bit unusal as well. Very interesting keris.

kai · 20th July 2007, 01:21 AM

Hello Sharial,

I'm really looking forward to that day when a brother of this blade will show up or we get some other insights on it's provenance! Until then, it is a real puzzler...

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2925

Regards,
Kai

Alam Shah · 20th July 2007, 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

Hello Sharial,

I'm really looking forward to that day when a brother of this blade will show up or we get some other insights on it's provenance! Until then, it is a real puzzler...

Yeah... I was hoping that some of us, ... with new acquired knowledge and seen, reviewed more kerises... etc, might get additional info.

I started fresh... to let our new members comment accordingly... some might have seen something similar...etc.

Alam Shah · 3rd July 2008, 08:17 AM

Bumping this up again.

Anyone have any ideas, comments... etc?

Rick · 3rd July 2008, 04:55 PM

This work reminds me a lot of okir decoration .

Marcokeris · 3rd July 2008, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alam Shah

The greneng, as we know it is on the left side of the tapering base of the keris.
Could anyone give pointers on what this represents?

I dont know what represents but.... Alam it is, IMO, a beautiful keris

Alam Shah · 4th July 2008, 03:11 AM

Thanks Marco.

Rick, it does looks like okir...
Thanks Kai for the piece.

... still no cigars...

Rick · 4th July 2008, 03:49 AM

No cigars yes, but do you suppose this in any way reinforces the link between Sumatra and the southern Philippines ?

Do we see any non martial applications of this type of style in any Sumatran art ?

RobT · 4th July 2008, 04:57 AM

Hi All,
It's a really nice looking keris but what strikes me as odd is that the tang appears to be off center to the axis of the thrust. Am I seeing something that isn't there?
Sincerely,
RobT

Alam Shah · 4th July 2008, 05:35 AM

Hi RobT, sharp observation.

See more pics here...
http://alamshah.fotopic.net/c1047834.html

David · 4th July 2008, 07:19 AM

Maybe there is a Turkish connection...

...

PenangsangII · 4th July 2008, 07:37 AM

AlamShah, maybe you should change the hilt to Yatagan style...hahaha....

Alam Shah · 4th July 2008, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Maybe there is a Turkish connection...

...

Hmmm... maybe, if I'll try to get the 'bearish' jawa demam hilt form, which is known to be Sumatran... a form found used in Minangkabau pieces. It have 'ears' like the yataghan hilt.

RobT · 4th July 2008, 07:40 PM

Hi All,
Hopefully my comment isn't so far off base as to have me compared to a recent "contributor" to the forum but after seeing the other photos on the AlamShah website, the tang still looks further toward the dagu side of the keris than is normal. If that is the case then, given the quality of the blade, I have to imagine the empu knew exactly what he was doing and the offset was deliberate. What then was the reason for that positioning?
Sincerely,
RobT

kai · 5th July 2008, 01:40 AM

Some keris have a pesi much more prominently based off-center than this example. I have no pics at hand but those I can remember from the top of my head were a few sepokal blades and a variant keris panjang.

I'd need to handle such a keris to assess the function. Maybe with the curved sepokal blades it doesn't make that much of a difference, anyway?

Regards,
Kai

19th July 2007, 03:37 AM	#1
Alam Shah Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,248	Puzzling greneng works The greneng, as we know it is on the left side of the tapering base of the keris. Could anyone give pointers on what this represents? Attached Images

19th July 2007, 05:30 AM	#5
Alam Shah Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,248	The blade Here's the full blade. You can also see it here... http://alamshah.fotopic.net/c1047834.html Attached Images

4th July 2008, 04:57 AM	#14
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 493	Odd tang placement Hi All, It's a really nice looking keris but what strikes me as odd is that the tang appears to be off center to the axis of the thrust. Am I seeing something that isn't there? Sincerely, RobT

4th July 2008, 07:40 PM	#19
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 493	Why? Hi All, Hopefully my comment isn't so far off base as to have me compared to a recent "contributor" to the forum but after seeing the other photos on the AlamShah website, the tang still looks further toward the dagu side of the keris than is normal. If that is the case then, given the quality of the blade, I have to imagine the empu knew exactly what he was doing and the offset was deliberate. What then was the reason for that positioning? Sincerely, RobT

19th July 2007, 04:22 AM	#2
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,128	That is cool and unusual Shahrial. Any chance we could see the whole blade?

19th July 2007, 04:35 AM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,898	Looks to me like somebody got carried away by his muse.

19th July 2007, 04:37 AM	#4
Newsteel Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 132	Yup, the whole blade please. That greneng is uncommon. But often we found that on sundang keris meant for high status person.

19th July 2007, 06:03 PM	#6
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,128	Thanks Shahrial. I like the overall look of this blade. The gandik area seems a bit unusal as well. Very interesting keris.

20th July 2007, 01:21 AM	#7
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,254	Hello Sharial, I'm really looking forward to that day when a brother of this blade will show up or we get some other insights on it's provenance! Until then, it is a real puzzler... http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2925 Regards, Kai

3rd July 2008, 08:17 AM	#9
Alam Shah Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,248	Bumping this up again. Anyone have any ideas, comments... etc?

3rd July 2008, 04:55 PM	#10
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,294	This work reminds me a lot of okir decoration .

4th July 2008, 03:11 AM	#12
Alam Shah Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,248	Thanks Marco. Rick, it does looks like okir... Thanks Kai for the piece. ... still no cigars...

4th July 2008, 03:49 AM	#13
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,294	No cigars yes, but do you suppose this in any way reinforces the link between Sumatra and the southern Philippines ? Do we see any non martial applications of this type of style in any Sumatran art ?

4th July 2008, 05:35 AM	#15
Alam Shah Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,248	Hi RobT, sharp observation. See more pics here... http://alamshah.fotopic.net/c1047834.html

4th July 2008, 07:19 AM	#16
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,128	Maybe there is a Turkish connection... ...

4th July 2008, 07:37 AM	#17
PenangsangII Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 401	AlamShah, maybe you should change the hilt to Yatagan style...hahaha....

5th July 2008, 01:40 AM	#20
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,254	Some keris have a pesi much more prominently based off-center than this example. I have no pics at hand but those I can remember from the top of my head were a few sepokal blades and a variant keris panjang. I'd need to handle such a keris to assess the function. Maybe with the curved sepokal blades it doesn't make that much of a difference, anyway? Regards, Kai