Massai shield

stekemest · 21st February 2009, 11:54 AM

Hi,

Can you tell me how old this massai shield is and if it is authentic or just made for the tourist trade? It doesn't look like the modern tourist crap to me, but I'm not sure.

That's not my shield yet, but I could buy it (pictures by seller).

Thank you very much in advance.

Peter

asomotif · 21st February 2009, 10:27 PM

How big is this shield ?

Would you dare to take on a lion with this shield ?
If not, it probably isn't the real thing.

The leather around the edge is to big/rough for starters.

stekemest · 21st February 2009, 11:11 PM

I don't know as I haven't held it in hand, but it seems to me rather small. I wouldn't take on a lion with it

What do you mean by "starters"? My English is not the best.

Thank you,
Peter

kronckew · 21st February 2009, 11:32 PM

he is using it in the sense of 'to start', as in it is the first discrepancy he notices. it struck me as a bit plain, the masai are usually very colorful. the size of the one you are considering would be useful. see below for comparative sizes. i've seen childrens ones and ones 'for those who travel' of a foot to 18" or so (30-50 cm.)

here's some masai participants from the london marathon:

another masai in full warrior dress

google 'masai sheild' and go to images for a LOT of examples, new and old.
part of one page:

stekemest · 22nd February 2009, 12:06 AM

Hi kronckew,

Thanks for the explanation. I already searched google, but I still can't say whether it is tourist stuff or authentic. The tourist shields I know look brighter and "cleaner", this one looks rather "used" to me.

I guess it has a length of ~50 cms, but I really can't say for sure.

Peter

kronckew · 22nd February 2009, 11:31 AM

of course the 'cleaner' ones like the runners are carrying are so bright because they repainted them as needed. the second one with the full head fur and the seme thru the belt had a 'well used' look, but was still showing remnants of the original colors. i remember seeing an old restored film of a masai lion hunt, the shields were big enough for the warrior to hide under if knocked over by a lion. see 2nd photo below.

this is what i meant by the childrens/tourist ones:

this is an old photo, i assume late 19th early 20thc.

p.s. - i updated the storage on the middle picture of the guy in the 'head fur' in my earlier post as it was not showing this morning...

a common theme i'm noting here is the 'real' ones, old and new have a number of points where the facing hide is tied to the backing/grip stick, which is enhanced on some of them by the painting, some dotted there or a zig-zag pattern. the touristy ones are only so tied just above and below the grip. the ones in the last black & white photo remind me of the roman auxilliary & cavalry shields of similar oval design and size.

my only shield is not african tho.

kronckew · 22nd February 2009, 12:15 PM

aha! found the video clip on youtube. it's an old 30's film with horribly bad hollywood stage sets, but they have interspaced old film footage from a real maasai lion hunt. lots of maasai shields and shield handling.

Linky to lion hunt clip

stekemest · 22nd February 2009, 01:25 PM

Hi kronckew,

Thank you. So the shield I posted is most likely tourist stuff?
Sorry I still don't fully understand.

Peter

kronckew · 22nd February 2009, 02:06 PM

es tut mir leid, aber ja, ich denke das ist fur touristen gemacht.

sorry for the poor german.

stekemest · 22nd February 2009, 02:25 PM

Your German is great, no mistake there.

Thank you very much kronckew.

Peter

Martin Lubojacky · 23rd February 2009, 08:08 AM

Hi Stekemest,

This is definitely tourist piece.

Ragerds,

Martin

VANDOO · 23rd February 2009, 05:33 PM

THE OLD SHIELDS ACTUALLY USED WHEN SPEARING LIONS WERE NOT FLAT BUT HAD SOME EDGES AND WERE CURVED SORT OF LIKE A SHALLOW BOAT SHAPE. THEY HAD SOME WEIGHT AND WERE THICK AND REINFORCED BY THE WOODEN FRAMEWORK AND WERE LARGE ENOUGH TO COVER THE WARRIOR WHEN HE CROUCHED DOWN.
THE ONES I HAVE HANDLED MADE TODAY ARE MUCH MORE FLIMSY AND FLAT AND ARE MOSTLY FOR CEREMONIES OR DANCES. THEY ARE ALSO CARRIED BY YOUNG BOYS DURING THEIR INITIATION CEREMONIES TO BECOME WARRIORS. I DON'T KNOW TOO MUCH ABOUT THE INITIATION BUT HAVE SEEN THE BOYS CARRING THEIR SHIELDS AND STICKS AND WEARING A DIFFERENT COSTUME AND WITH WHITE PAINT OR ASHES ON THEIR FACES IN TANZANIA. YOUR EXAMPLE WOULD FALL INTO THESE LAST TWO CATAGORIES AND LIKELY IS FOR INITIATION AS I BELIEVE THOSE ARE DISCARDED WHEN THE BOY BECOMES A MAN AND WARRIOR.

THE INITIATION SHIELD I HAVE IS 31.5 X 22 INCHES AND BASICALLY FLAT

Freddy · 23rd February 2009, 05:50 PM

I don't think this is a Masai shield, but it certainly comes from the same neighbourhood they live (probably another tribe). The construction is fairly similar to a Masai shield (wooden framework, covered in hide).
And it's quite heavy (more than 2 kgs).

Size is 105 cm x 37 cm.

stekemest · 23rd February 2009, 06:05 PM

Thank you all very much for your help.

Freddy, that's really a great shield.

21st February 2009, 11:54 AM	#1
stekemest Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Heidelberg, Germany Posts: 182	Massai shield Hi, Can you tell me how old this massai shield is and if it is authentic or just made for the tourist trade? It doesn't look like the modern tourist crap to me, but I'm not sure. That's not my shield yet, but I could buy it (pictures by seller). Thank you very much in advance. Peter Attached Images

21st February 2009, 11:32 PM	#4
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,182	he is using it in the sense of 'to start', as in it is the first discrepancy he notices. it struck me as a bit plain, the masai are usually very colorful. the size of the one you are considering would be useful. see below for comparative sizes. i've seen childrens ones and ones 'for those who travel' of a foot to 18" or so (30-50 cm.) here's some masai participants from the london marathon: another masai in full warrior dress google 'masai sheild' and go to images for a LOT of examples, new and old. part of one page: Attached Images Last edited by kronckew; 22nd February 2009 at 11:32 AM.

22nd February 2009, 11:31 AM	#6
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,182	of course the 'cleaner' ones like the runners are carrying are so bright because they repainted them as needed. the second one with the full head fur and the seme thru the belt had a 'well used' look, but was still showing remnants of the original colors. i remember seeing an old restored film of a masai lion hunt, the shields were big enough for the warrior to hide under if knocked over by a lion. see 2nd photo below. this is what i meant by the childrens/tourist ones: this is an old photo, i assume late 19th early 20thc. p.s. - i updated the storage on the middle picture of the guy in the 'head fur' in my earlier post as it was not showing this morning... a common theme i'm noting here is the 'real' ones, old and new have a number of points where the facing hide is tied to the backing/grip stick, which is enhanced on some of them by the painting, some dotted there or a zig-zag pattern. the touristy ones are only so tied just above and below the grip. the ones in the last black & white photo remind me of the roman auxilliary & cavalry shields of similar oval design and size. my only shield is not african tho. Last edited by kronckew; 22nd February 2009 at 11:55 AM.

21st February 2009, 10:27 PM	#2
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,225	How big is this shield ? Would you dare to take on a lion with this shield ? If not, it probably isn't the real thing. The leather around the edge is to big/rough for starters.

21st February 2009, 11:11 PM	#3
stekemest Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Heidelberg, Germany Posts: 182	I don't know as I haven't held it in hand, but it seems to me rather small. I wouldn't take on a lion with it What do you mean by "starters"? My English is not the best. Thank you, Peter

22nd February 2009, 12:06 AM	#5
stekemest Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Heidelberg, Germany Posts: 182	Hi kronckew, Thanks for the explanation. I already searched google, but I still can't say whether it is tourist stuff or authentic. The tourist shields I know look brighter and "cleaner", this one looks rather "used" to me. I guess it has a length of ~50 cms, but I really can't say for sure. Peter

22nd February 2009, 12:15 PM	#7
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,182	aha! found the video clip on youtube. it's an old 30's film with horribly bad hollywood stage sets, but they have interspaced old film footage from a real maasai lion hunt. lots of maasai shields and shield handling. Linky to lion hunt clip

22nd February 2009, 01:25 PM	#8
stekemest Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Heidelberg, Germany Posts: 182	Hi kronckew, Thank you. So the shield I posted is most likely tourist stuff? Sorry I still don't fully understand. Peter

22nd February 2009, 02:06 PM	#9
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,182	es tut mir leid, aber ja, ich denke das ist fur touristen gemacht. sorry for the poor german.

22nd February 2009, 02:25 PM	#10
stekemest Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Heidelberg, Germany Posts: 182	Your German is great, no mistake there. Thank you very much kronckew. Peter

23rd February 2009, 08:08 AM	#11
Martin Lubojacky Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 841	Hi Stekemest, This is definitely tourist piece. Ragerds, Martin

23rd February 2009, 05:33 PM	#12
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	THE OLD SHIELDS ACTUALLY USED WHEN SPEARING LIONS WERE NOT FLAT BUT HAD SOME EDGES AND WERE CURVED SORT OF LIKE A SHALLOW BOAT SHAPE. THEY HAD SOME WEIGHT AND WERE THICK AND REINFORCED BY THE WOODEN FRAMEWORK AND WERE LARGE ENOUGH TO COVER THE WARRIOR WHEN HE CROUCHED DOWN. THE ONES I HAVE HANDLED MADE TODAY ARE MUCH MORE FLIMSY AND FLAT AND ARE MOSTLY FOR CEREMONIES OR DANCES. THEY ARE ALSO CARRIED BY YOUNG BOYS DURING THEIR INITIATION CEREMONIES TO BECOME WARRIORS. I DON'T KNOW TOO MUCH ABOUT THE INITIATION BUT HAVE SEEN THE BOYS CARRING THEIR SHIELDS AND STICKS AND WEARING A DIFFERENT COSTUME AND WITH WHITE PAINT OR ASHES ON THEIR FACES IN TANZANIA. YOUR EXAMPLE WOULD FALL INTO THESE LAST TWO CATAGORIES AND LIKELY IS FOR INITIATION AS I BELIEVE THOSE ARE DISCARDED WHEN THE BOY BECOMES A MAN AND WARRIOR. THE INITIATION SHIELD I HAVE IS 31.5 X 22 INCHES AND BASICALLY FLAT

23rd February 2009, 05:50 PM	#13
Freddy Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sint-Amandsberg (near Ghent, Belgium) Posts: 830	I don't think this is a Masai shield, but it certainly comes from the same neighbourhood they live (probably another tribe). The construction is fairly similar to a Masai shield (wooden framework, covered in hide). And it's quite heavy (more than 2 kgs). Size is 105 cm x 37 cm.

23rd February 2009, 06:05 PM	#14
stekemest Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Heidelberg, Germany Posts: 182	Thank you all very much for your help. Freddy, that's really a great shield.