Interesting Yunnan daarb/ Dha

Nathaniel · 20th February 2009, 05:24 AM

I find the tip in particular very interesting...it reminds me of the kris blade at the hilt. Do you think it was a a damaged blade that was repaired? I've never seen a tip like this.

Lew · 20th February 2009, 05:35 AM

Nathaniel

I love this sword very different in my eyes. The tip reminds a little of the parang I just picked up.

Lew

asomotif · 20th February 2009, 07:51 AM

MURUT influences

Very nice sword by the way. lovely old patinated fittings.

Ferguson · 20th February 2009, 07:13 PM

That is an absolutely stunning sword.

Steve

DhaDha · 20th February 2009, 09:54 PM

Nice one. Love the curved handle. I have one with curved hilt as well. Always wondered if it was to assist in two-handed use or for trapping opponent's arms in battle.

kahnjar1 · 21st February 2009, 02:39 AM

Hi Nathaniel,
In my humble opinion, I do not think that this is a Yunnan Dha. Style suggests more Burmese/Shan States to me. MARK---What do you think?
I have posted a couple of pics of definate Yunnan Dha which I have in my collection. Each has a guard and one has a Chinese makers mark.

Now to the blade................how does the length compare with the scabbard length? If the blade is noticably shorter, then it would suggest that it has been broken and refinished. Nice piece though, even if it does turn out to be a new "finish" to the blade tip.

Nathaniel · 21st February 2009, 07:20 AM

kahnjar1,

kahnjar1, Nice Yunnan pieces. Thanks for sharing

You might be right...the person who sent me the pictures called it a Yunnan dha..so that is just what I labeled it :P

I would lean more towards Kachin versus Shan...but in Yunnan province the Kachin are called Jingpo...it's difficult to distinguish because there are several hill tribes that live on across borders and they traded with each other..

For example, I have some modern dha from the Shan state, but the blade style makes you think more Kachin...but actually the Chinese characters name a village in Yunnan....

It would be interesting to hear what others like Mark, Ian, Andrew, have to add...I'm new at this and have allot to learn.

Oh, and I wish I could give you the stats on the blade, etc, but unfortunately this one is not owned by myself or the guy who sent me the photos.

kahnjar1 · 21st February 2009, 07:43 AM

Hi Nathaniel,
I was also thinking Kachin, as the hilt style is found on their Dha also, but hopefully one of the "Learned Three" will chime in on this.
Regards Stuart

Nathaniel · 21st February 2009, 06:54 PM

Stuart,

Following your post, I thought I would just post up pictures of some other dha/daarb/dao with Chinese motifs from the HOS & dha research index..fantastic pieces.

Does anyone else have pics along the same lines to share?

ausjulius · 21st February 2009, 07:08 PM

there is a company in china still making these swords.... they have a web site.. they are making weapons from the dai ethnic group

Robert · 21st February 2009, 09:34 PM

Using the pictures at the top of the post and comparing the blade length to scabbard length the blade seems to be about 92% the length of the scabbard.

Robert

fearn · 22nd February 2009, 03:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ausjulius

there is a company in china still making these swords.... they have a web site.. they are making weapons from the dai ethnic group

And that company is...?

Nathaniel · 22nd February 2009, 07:04 AM

I just looked up the Dai people...they are also know as the Thai Lu in Thailand...one sub group is the Thai Yong, "Tai Yong are thus descendants of the Tai Lue. In Thailand, these people are know as Thai Yai (Big Thai) and by the rest of the world as Shan."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dai_people

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shan_people

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jingpo

Nathaniel · 22nd February 2009, 07:05 AM

ausjulius, yes, do you know their website?

Gavin Nugent · 22nd February 2009, 09:46 AM

I will ask a gentleman in Hong kong who provided me with many images of this village or one of these small mountain villages in Yunnan on the Burma/China border and also images of their work.
His visits were in the 1980's and they have been making blades for many hundreds of years.
My interest started some time ago when I purchased Bhutanese dagger of nice quality that had Chinese characters on it.
I'll see what I can post for all interested.

Gav

Mark · 22nd February 2009, 11:16 AM

I, too, think this is a "Bama" dha, though the fittings have a Chinese flavor to them. Still, it could very well have come geographically from Yunnan, as ethnic groups straddle the border, and swords seem to migrate even further. I do not think that the tip is re-worked. Though I have never seen one precisely like this, you do get some exotic ones:

The long, curved handle is sort of unusual, too, for that style. Yet another sub-type, or possibly hybrid style. It never ends.

josh stout · 23rd February 2009, 08:21 PM

I think the Chinese call anything like a dha a "Dai dao". This is one I have posted before that I think is Burmese (Shan?) in style but was certainly found in Yunnan. The blade is a slim "willow leaf" style similar to familiar Chinese blades but slim and light in comparison. I have a Vietnamese daarb with almost the same blade. It seems to be a more or less standard form, at least in a smaller example like mine.

Josh

Nathaniel · 20th October 2009, 05:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark

I, too, think this is a "Bama" dha, though the fittings have a Chinese flavor to them. Still, it could very well have come geographically from Yunnan, as ethnic groups straddle the border, and swords seem to migrate even further. I do not think that the tip is re-worked. Though I have never seen one precisely like this, you do get some exotic ones:

The long, curved handle is sort of unusual, too, for that style. Yet another sub-type, or possibly hybrid style. It never ends.

I came across some Chinese dao with a different tip that reminded me of the tip on this dha:

I've been told this type tip is called a roster head/comb...Philip Tom said this type of tip is generally labeled "phoenix wing" or fengchi shape

aiontay · 20th October 2009, 01:53 PM

Keep in mind that the Burma/China border was not completely established until the mid 1900s. In fact, one of the reasons for the Kachin rebellion which began in 1962 was that U Nu agreed to a border that "gave" several Kachin villages to China. Also, Kachin is a recent collective term that covers Jinghpaw/Jinpo, Maru, Lashi, Atsi, Rawang and some times Lisu, all of whom live in both China and Burma for years and have for centuries before either country took their present shape. Jinghpaw/Jinpo/Singpo and Lisus also have substantial populations in India.

The Thai/Tai/Dai people are similarly live in several different countries from India (Assam and Siam share the same root) to Vietnam. In the early 19th century the King of Chiang Mai, at that time a vassal kingdom of Bangkok, made several raids in to China and forcible resettled numerous Tai Lue villagers in northern Thailand, which had been depopulated due to the wars with Burma. The Shan State was actually made part of Thailand during WWII by the Japanese occupation, I guess my point is borders aren't as rigid as they might appear, and there have always been all sorts of interaction between cultures for centuries. In Kutkai, everybody speaks four different languages as part of every day life.

20th February 2009, 05:24 AM	#1
Nathaniel Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 865	Interesting Yunnan daarb/ Dha I find the tip in particular very interesting...it reminds me of the kris blade at the hilt. Do you think it was a a damaged blade that was repaired? I've never seen a tip like this.

20th February 2009, 05:35 AM	#2
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Nathaniel I love this sword very different in my eyes. The tip reminds a little of the parang I just picked up. Lew Attached Images

21st February 2009, 02:39 AM	#6
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,741	Hi Nathaniel, In my humble opinion, I do not think that this is a Yunnan Dha. Style suggests more Burmese/Shan States to me. MARK---What do you think? I have posted a couple of pics of definate Yunnan Dha which I have in my collection. Each has a guard and one has a Chinese makers mark. Now to the blade................how does the length compare with the scabbard length? If the blade is noticably shorter, then it would suggest that it has been broken and refinished. Nice piece though, even if it does turn out to be a new "finish" to the blade tip. Attached Images

22nd February 2009, 09:46 AM	#15
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	I have a number of images of this village. I will ask a gentleman in Hong kong who provided me with many images of this village or one of these small mountain villages in Yunnan on the Burma/China border and also images of their work. His visits were in the 1980's and they have been making blades for many hundreds of years. My interest started some time ago when I purchased Bhutanese dagger of nice quality that had Chinese characters on it. I'll see what I can post for all interested. Gav

23rd February 2009, 08:21 PM	#17
josh stout Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 407	I think the Chinese call anything like a dha a "Dai dao". This is one I have posted before that I think is Burmese (Shan?) in style but was certainly found in Yunnan. The blade is a slim "willow leaf" style similar to familiar Chinese blades but slim and light in comparison. I have a Vietnamese daarb with almost the same blade. It seems to be a more or less standard form, at least in a smaller example like mine. Josh Last edited by Mark; 26th February 2009 at 04:36 PM. Reason: Changed coding to directly import images

20th February 2009, 07:51 AM	#3
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,225	MURUT influences Very nice sword by the way. lovely old patinated fittings.

20th February 2009, 07:13 PM	#4
Ferguson Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kernersville, NC, USA Posts: 793	That is an absolutely stunning sword. Steve

20th February 2009, 09:54 PM	#5
DhaDha Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 165	Nice one. Love the curved handle. I have one with curved hilt as well. Always wondered if it was to assist in two-handed use or for trapping opponent's arms in battle.

21st February 2009, 07:20 AM	#7
Nathaniel Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 865	kahnjar1, kahnjar1, Nice Yunnan pieces. Thanks for sharing You might be right...the person who sent me the pictures called it a Yunnan dha..so that is just what I labeled it :P I would lean more towards Kachin versus Shan...but in Yunnan province the Kachin are called Jingpo...it's difficult to distinguish because there are several hill tribes that live on across borders and they traded with each other.. For example, I have some modern dha from the Shan state, but the blade style makes you think more Kachin...but actually the Chinese characters name a village in Yunnan.... It would be interesting to hear what others like Mark, Ian, Andrew, have to add...I'm new at this and have allot to learn. Oh, and I wish I could give you the stats on the blade, etc, but unfortunately this one is not owned by myself or the guy who sent me the photos.

21st February 2009, 07:43 AM	#8
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,741	Hi Nathaniel, I was also thinking Kachin, as the hilt style is found on their Dha also, but hopefully one of the "Learned Three" will chime in on this. Regards Stuart

21st February 2009, 06:54 PM	#9
Nathaniel Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 865	Stuart, Following your post, I thought I would just post up pictures of some other dha/daarb/dao with Chinese motifs from the HOS & dha research index..fantastic pieces. Does anyone else have pics along the same lines to share?

21st February 2009, 07:08 PM	#10
ausjulius Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: musorian territory Posts: 424	there is a company in china still making these swords.... they have a web site.. they are making weapons from the dai ethnic group

21st February 2009, 09:34 PM	#11
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Using the pictures at the top of the post and comparing the blade length to scabbard length the blade seems to be about 92% the length of the scabbard. Robert

22nd February 2009, 07:04 AM	#13
Nathaniel Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 865	I just looked up the Dai people...they are also know as the Thai Lu in Thailand...one sub group is the Thai Yong, "Tai Yong are thus descendants of the Tai Lue. In Thailand, these people are know as Thai Yai (Big Thai) and by the rest of the world as Shan." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dai_people http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shan_people http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jingpo

22nd February 2009, 07:05 AM	#14
Nathaniel Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 865	ausjulius, yes, do you know their website?

22nd February 2009, 11:16 AM	#16
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 987	I, too, think this is a "Bama" dha, though the fittings have a Chinese flavor to them. Still, it could very well have come geographically from Yunnan, as ethnic groups straddle the border, and swords seem to migrate even further. I do not think that the tip is re-worked. Though I have never seen one precisely like this, you do get some exotic ones: The long, curved handle is sort of unusual, too, for that style. Yet another sub-type, or possibly hybrid style. It never ends.

20th October 2009, 01:53 PM	#19
aiontay Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 88	Keep in mind that the Burma/China border was not completely established until the mid 1900s. In fact, one of the reasons for the Kachin rebellion which began in 1962 was that U Nu agreed to a border that "gave" several Kachin villages to China. Also, Kachin is a recent collective term that covers Jinghpaw/Jinpo, Maru, Lashi, Atsi, Rawang and some times Lisu, all of whom live in both China and Burma for years and have for centuries before either country took their present shape. Jinghpaw/Jinpo/Singpo and Lisus also have substantial populations in India. The Thai/Tai/Dai people are similarly live in several different countries from India (Assam and Siam share the same root) to Vietnam. In the early 19th century the King of Chiang Mai, at that time a vassal kingdom of Bangkok, made several raids in to China and forcible resettled numerous Tai Lue villagers in northern Thailand, which had been depopulated due to the wars with Burma. The Shan State was actually made part of Thailand during WWII by the Japanese occupation, I guess my point is borders aren't as rigid as they might appear, and there have always been all sorts of interaction between cultures for centuries. In Kutkai, everybody speaks four different languages as part of every day life.