Afghan lohars in Istambul grand bazar

Emanuel · 1st September 2011, 11:28 PM

Hello folks,

I had the chance to visit Istanbul for a a few days two weeks ago and on a walk through the Grand Bazaar I noticed a store with many metal nick-knacks. In a dusty bucket were dozens of folding Afghan lohars with a posted price of 150 TL IIRC. They seemed identical to what we've seen here on the forum for many years but I was struck by the quantity on sale. It made me wonder once again at the purpose of these pieces, whether they were ever used for any practical purpose or intended for "export".

Any thoughts on this? I searched the bazaar for any good old stuff but all I could find were toy reproductions and 1 or 2 yataghans in poor condition used as decoration and not for sale.

Emanuel

ariel · 2nd September 2011, 01:20 AM

Once upon a time, the question of lohars' use came up on a Russian weapon forum.
Some Russian veterans of the Afghan War mentioned that lohars were widely ( and exclusively) used as bazaar implements to split large cones of sugar, apparently the form in which it was produced and sold there. Rather pedestrian, isn't it? Way less sexy than battle horses' legs cutters, mountaineers' picks, or folding battle axes we were so accustomed to romanticize about.....

Since Lohars over there are a caste of wandering blacksmiths, the custom of every male making an implement might be viewed simply as a kind of "graduation exam" to become a full-fledged member of the guild. After that... tea, anyone? One piece of sugar or two?

Grand Bazaar in Istanbul is a very disappointing place weapon-wise. Knowledgeable friends of mine took me to the weapon stores there, but they had only overpriced junk or mass-produced fakes. The prices are ourtageous even for a rarely-encountered rusty and broken, but real, end of the 19th century, yataghans. The same is true for the Turkish equivalent of e-bay. Perhaps, there are secret antique shops with a good stuff, but I dread to think about the price tags.

The food is great, though.

DaveA · 5th September 2011, 05:03 PM

In the spirt of "form follows function", I recently showed my folding Lohar to a friend who is a climber and asked the function. He instantly said "ice pick". I like that so much better than "sugar pick!"

Billman · 27th December 2011, 11:28 AM

Just seen one on sale online in the USA, and looked at the old (2004) link on the forum http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/002389.html so I thought I'd add my twopenneth worth of ideas...

I have one of these folding sickle knives, although at the time I didn't know anything of its origins, and to be quite honest despite reading all the thoughts on the forum, I guess no-one is 100% sure of its use or significance..

Starting from first principles, they are:

a) ornate
b) not very strong
c) shaped like a sickle

My best guess is this some sort of ornamental, ceremonial or decorative use rather than any real practical use as a weapon or tool... As a defensive weapon it would be useful, but slow to open and get into action - as a tool it would work for cutting light stuff such as grass, straw or reed but not much use for anything woody, and prolonged use would stress it to destruction...

The fact that it doesn't appear in any images or Afghan warrior's dress, and that in the region much of the day to day work is done by women could mean that it is a women's knife - possibly part of a marriage proposal or dowry - given by a man to his (intended) bride????

For more on the word lohar as blacksmith or iron see: http://www.rajasthanvisit.com/Folk_T..._Rajasthan.htm

The picture of the one currently on sale cannot be shown as no active auctions photos allowed.

1st September 2011, 11:28 PM	#1
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	Afghan lohars in Istambul grand bazar Hello folks, I had the chance to visit Istanbul for a a few days two weeks ago and on a walk through the Grand Bazaar I noticed a store with many metal nick-knacks. In a dusty bucket were dozens of folding Afghan lohars with a posted price of 150 TL IIRC. They seemed identical to what we've seen here on the forum for many years but I was struck by the quantity on sale. It made me wonder once again at the purpose of these pieces, whether they were ever used for any practical purpose or intended for "export". Any thoughts on this? I searched the bazaar for any good old stuff but all I could find were toy reproductions and 1 or 2 yataghans in poor condition used as decoration and not for sale. Emanuel

5th September 2011, 05:03 PM	#3
DaveA Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Wisconsin, USA Posts: 413	Lohar use In the spirt of "form follows function", I recently showed my folding Lohar to a friend who is a climber and asked the function. He instantly said "ice pick". I like that so much better than "sugar pick!"

27th December 2011, 11:28 AM	#4
Billman Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 129	Just seen one on sale online in the USA, and looked at the old (2004) link on the forum http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/002389.html so I thought I'd add my twopenneth worth of ideas... I have one of these folding sickle knives, although at the time I didn't know anything of its origins, and to be quite honest despite reading all the thoughts on the forum, I guess no-one is 100% sure of its use or significance.. Starting from first principles, they are: a) ornate b) not very strong c) shaped like a sickle My best guess is this some sort of ornamental, ceremonial or decorative use rather than any real practical use as a weapon or tool... As a defensive weapon it would be useful, but slow to open and get into action - as a tool it would work for cutting light stuff such as grass, straw or reed but not much use for anything woody, and prolonged use would stress it to destruction... The fact that it doesn't appear in any images or Afghan warrior's dress, and that in the region much of the day to day work is done by women could mean that it is a women's knife - possibly part of a marriage proposal or dowry - given by a man to his (intended) bride???? For more on the word lohar as blacksmith or iron see: http://www.rajasthanvisit.com/Folk_T..._Rajasthan.htm The picture of the one currently on sale cannot be shown as no active auctions photos allowed. Last edited by Billman; 28th December 2011 at 10:42 AM.

2nd September 2011, 01:20 AM	#2
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Once upon a time, the question of lohars' use came up on a Russian weapon forum. Some Russian veterans of the Afghan War mentioned that lohars were widely ( and exclusively) used as bazaar implements to split large cones of sugar, apparently the form in which it was produced and sold there. Rather pedestrian, isn't it? Way less sexy than battle horses' legs cutters, mountaineers' picks, or folding battle axes we were so accustomed to romanticize about..... Since Lohars over there are a caste of wandering blacksmiths, the custom of every male making an implement might be viewed simply as a kind of "graduation exam" to become a full-fledged member of the guild. After that... tea, anyone? One piece of sugar or two? Grand Bazaar in Istanbul is a very disappointing place weapon-wise. Knowledgeable friends of mine took me to the weapon stores there, but they had only overpriced junk or mass-produced fakes. The prices are ourtageous even for a rarely-encountered rusty and broken, but real, end of the 19th century, yataghans. The same is true for the Turkish equivalent of e-bay. Perhaps, there are secret antique shops with a good stuff, but I dread to think about the price tags. The food is great, though.