samouraï sword, what do you think ?

francantolin · 3rd November 2015, 11:24 PM

Hello,
I just buy this japanese sword for few money,

I wonder if it is just touristic stuff or a bit more original
it seems semi-antique, the hilt seems to be made with real ray leather, the scabbard looks old
the blade is sharp, but the dragon engraved in the blade make it look like a bad fake japanese sword.
Have somebody ever seen a real katana blade with this drawings ?
Thank you

harrywagner · 4th November 2015, 03:41 PM

I don't know if that Katana is a fake or real. I do know that the Chinese made modern reproductions, on an industrial scale, of real Japanese swords. I know that because I have two of them, and I am convinced both are fakes. Yours looks different to me. Can you please post a closeup of the blade? I am doing the same for the two fakes I have. Maybe a comparison will help. My understanding is that the blades on the Chinese fakes were given an acid bath to imitate the Damascus steel look. I hope this helps! BTW... I think that is a great looking sword regardless of its age or origin. If it were mine, I would keep it.

Harry

RobertGuy · 4th November 2015, 05:51 PM

Very poor quality Chinese made 'Sword Like Object' I'm afraid. Pattern welded damascus type blade, ito wrap does not alternate and is poorly done, horimono carvings on the blade are not good quality... I could go on

Rich · 4th November 2015, 06:10 PM

Francantolin - IMHO, it is a modern Chinese fake. I don't see any hamon nor hada. The dragon carving is very amatuerish and the scabbard (saya) is typical of modern Chinese as is the poorly wrapped handle.

Harry - As you know, yours is also a modern Chinese fake that has been severly acid etched to show the hada.

Rich

Japanese Sword Guide
http://japaneseswordindex.com/nihonto.htm

Nihonto Message Board
http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/index.php

estcrh · 4th November 2015, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by francantolin

Have somebody ever seen a real katana blade with this drawings ?
Thank you

Francantolin, many Japanese swords have carvings on the blade (horimono).

francantolin · 4th November 2015, 10:03 PM

Hello everybody,
these carvings sure are really nice ! and we can see it's really good quality !!
I'll post more pictures just for show it.

Thank you !!!

stekemest · 4th November 2015, 10:58 PM

Definitely a chinese fake, sorry. Very poor quality overall, bad shape, unaesthetic proportions, blurred and uneven shinogi... and even the worst meiji era horimono look better than these chinese ones.

asomotif · 4th November 2015, 11:01 PM

Francantolin,

Congratulations.
Your "sword like object" is approx 30 years old.
I have exactly the same and got it for my 15th birthday in 1984 :-)

I recall that in those days, they where sold an authentic reproduction and where claimed to be made in Spain.

The rayskin is absolutely plastic. There is no actual mekugi (bamboo peg), and under the buttcap you will find a hex nut keeping the hilt and blade together.

The wrapping of the hilt can be better. It became like this because somebody probably has been swinging the sword around.

Mine is still in a corner in the attic for sentimentasl reasons.
If you have no sentimental reasons to keep it, I would suggest not to keep it.

Best regards,
Willem

Battara · 5th November 2015, 01:19 AM

This looks very like a Paul Chen reproduction. That Chinese company makes these as reproductions, not trying to defraud the consumer. The dealer that sells these as authentic on the other hand.........

harrywagner · 5th November 2015, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

This looks very like a Paul Chen reproduction. That Chinese company makes these as reproductions, not trying to defraud the consumer. The dealer that sells these as authentic on the other hand.........

I could not agree more. Both of mine were distressed to make them appear old, and for that reason I consider them both fakes. I don't feel bad about it though. I expected they would be at the price I paid. Not to mention how difficult (impossible?) and expensive it is to find a real one. They are probably as close as I will ever get to the real thing, and they make good office decor.

Roland_M · 5th November 2015, 04:48 PM

Hello,

can you make a picture like the last one but with a flash (this will bring out the hamon if there is one) and a picture of the tang (Nakago) please? This would be very helpful.

I would say, it is either a real Nihonto or a good folded or unfolded (1095 steel) reproduction but no poor chinese eBay fake like the second blade.

The loose handle wrapping means nothing.

Roland

asomotif · 6th November 2015, 01:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roland_M

I would say, it is either a real Nihonto or a good folded or unfolded (1095 steel) reproduction but no poor chinese eBay fake like the second blade.

The loose handle wrapping means nothing.

Roland

Dear Roland,

Check my post of 4 nov 11.01 I have a 100% identical sword.

Roland_M · 6th November 2015, 02:06 PM

Dear Willem,

I saw your comment but no picture(s) of your sword. I would say the Tsuba looks not bad and the Horimono is also ok for a modern production and not easy to make.
Carvings from China fakes causes eye-cancer in most cases, they are ridiculously bad (I added a picture with an almost perfect chinese Hamon and Horimono).

Unfortunately the picture quality is too low for a proper statement.

Regards,
Roland

asomotif · 8th November 2015, 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roland_M

Dear Willem,

I saw your comment but no picture(s) of your sword.

I checked the attic, and it was still there in prestine condition.
Sorry for the bad pictures, but the best of daylight would not have brought out any hamon.

Best regards,
Willem

RobertGuy · 8th November 2015, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

This looks very like a Paul Chen reproduction. That Chinese company makes these as reproductions, not trying to defraud the consumer. The dealer that sells these as authentic on the other hand.........

Just a quick reply to defend Paul Chen. Hanwei, Paul Chen's company make some of the best mass produced Chinese katana swords. They range from basic swords designed for use in competitions to high end pieces for the Bugei company. They also do reasonable medieval and renaissance blades. There is no way that Franantolin's sword was made by Paul Chen. They still do not compare with a genuine Nihonto produced by a Japanese smith but they are not poor quality rubbish either.

Henk · 11th November 2015, 12:42 AM

These swords where made in Spain, Toledo. I wouldn't say tourist but decoration.

3rd November 2015, 11:24 PM	#1
francantolin Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 876	samouraï sword, what do you think ? Hello, I just buy this japanese sword for few money, I wonder if it is just touristic stuff or a bit more original it seems semi-antique, the hilt seems to be made with real ray leather, the scabbard looks old the blade is sharp, but the dragon engraved in the blade make it look like a bad fake japanese sword. Have somebody ever seen a real katana blade with this drawings ? Thank you Attached Images

4th November 2015, 03:41 PM	#2
harrywagner Member Join Date: Jul 2015 Posts: 373	Comparison I don't know if that Katana is a fake or real. I do know that the Chinese made modern reproductions, on an industrial scale, of real Japanese swords. I know that because I have two of them, and I am convinced both are fakes. Yours looks different to me. Can you please post a closeup of the blade? I am doing the same for the two fakes I have. Maybe a comparison will help. My understanding is that the blades on the Chinese fakes were given an acid bath to imitate the Damascus steel look. I hope this helps! BTW... I think that is a great looking sword regardless of its age or origin. If it were mine, I would keep it. Harry Attached Images

6th November 2015, 02:06 PM	#13
Roland_M Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Germany Posts: 525	Dear Willem, I saw your comment but no picture(s) of your sword. I would say the Tsuba looks not bad and the Horimono is also ok for a modern production and not easy to make. Carvings from China fakes causes eye-cancer in most cases, they are ridiculously bad (I added a picture with an almost perfect chinese Hamon and Horimono). Unfortunately the picture quality is too low for a proper statement. Regards, Roland Attached Images

4th November 2015, 05:51 PM	#3
RobertGuy Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 135	Very poor quality Chinese made 'Sword Like Object' I'm afraid. Pattern welded damascus type blade, ito wrap does not alternate and is poorly done, horimono carvings on the blade are not good quality... I could go on

4th November 2015, 06:10 PM	#4
Rich Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: comfortably at home, USA Posts: 432	Francantolin - IMHO, it is a modern Chinese fake. I don't see any hamon nor hada. The dragon carving is very amatuerish and the scabbard (saya) is typical of modern Chinese as is the poorly wrapped handle. Harry - As you know, yours is also a modern Chinese fake that has been severly acid etched to show the hada. Rich Japanese Sword Guide http://japaneseswordindex.com/nihonto.htm Nihonto Message Board http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/index.php

4th November 2015, 10:03 PM	#6
francantolin Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 876	Hello everybody, these carvings sure are really nice ! and we can see it's really good quality !! I'll post more pictures just for show it. Thank you !!!

4th November 2015, 10:58 PM	#7
stekemest Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Heidelberg, Germany Posts: 182	Definitely a chinese fake, sorry. Very poor quality overall, bad shape, unaesthetic proportions, blurred and uneven shinogi... and even the worst meiji era horimono look better than these chinese ones.

4th November 2015, 11:01 PM	#8
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,225	Francantolin, Congratulations. Your "sword like object" is approx 30 years old. I have exactly the same and got it for my 15th birthday in 1984 :-) I recall that in those days, they where sold an authentic reproduction and where claimed to be made in Spain. The rayskin is absolutely plastic. There is no actual mekugi (bamboo peg), and under the buttcap you will find a hex nut keeping the hilt and blade together. The wrapping of the hilt can be better. It became like this because somebody probably has been swinging the sword around. Mine is still in a corner in the attic for sentimentasl reasons. If you have no sentimental reasons to keep it, I would suggest not to keep it. Best regards, Willem

5th November 2015, 01:19 AM	#9
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	This looks very like a Paul Chen reproduction. That Chinese company makes these as reproductions, not trying to defraud the consumer. The dealer that sells these as authentic on the other hand.........

5th November 2015, 04:48 PM	#11
Roland_M Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Germany Posts: 525	Hello, can you make a picture like the last one but with a flash (this will bring out the hamon if there is one) and a picture of the tang (Nakago) please? This would be very helpful. I would say, it is either a real Nihonto or a good folded or unfolded (1095 steel) reproduction but no poor chinese eBay fake like the second blade. The loose handle wrapping means nothing. Roland

11th November 2015, 12:42 AM	#16
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	These swords where made in Spain, Toledo. I wouldn't say tourist but decoration.