Ottoman trousse

[Kubur]

Hi Guys,

Do you know anything about this Ottoman trousse?
I have seen many of them with 3 knives.
I would like to know what they were used for...
I'm not talking about the knife and fork, the use is obvious for this one.
Just the ones with 3 identical knives...
Thanks

Kubur

[shayde78]

Two thoughts occur to me, but these are offered merely as speculation:

-There may have been a dietary practice that required different utensils for different food items (I.e. along the lines of kosher requirements). Could also apply to processing meats vs. veggies, or cooked vs. uncooked foods in an early example of food safety procedures.

-Or, could be a case of these being issued to those who had to prepare food for a large company on a regular basis. Processing an animal for the oven, grill, or pot is quite the task. I could see a cook sharpening his/her three identical blades in the morning. Then setting about his/her work, swapping out the dull blades for a sharp as the cutting tasks took their toll. Having knives of identical proportion, weight, and balance would allow the practiced hand to continue without missing a beat.

[RSWORD]

Seems a mismatched set to me. Why have brass handles and silver scabbard?

[Kubur]

Originally Posted by shayde78

Two thoughts occur to me, but these are offered merely as speculation:
-There may have been a dietary practice that required different utensils for different food items.
-Or, could be a case of these being issued to those who had to prepare food for a large company on a regular basis.

Thanks
It's logic for us... but for them back in time, i'm not so sure...
I found another one from our favourite dealer...
If someone can translate it's maybe written on it...

[Kubur]

Originally Posted by RSWORD

Seems a mismatched set to me. Why have brass handles and silver scabbard?

it's not unusual... or just uncleaned silver...

[Victrix]

Never seen this type of knives before. They don’t look very martial so would guess they are eating utensils? Something for when you invite your friends out for a barbeque in nature? Both scabbards pictured are decorated with fish scales at the bottom, which could be a coincidence or point towards use with fish? The latter scabbard is clearly designed to be worn on a belt.

Or kebab vendor’s knife set? Perhaps the knife would need sharpening and there was no time so he would just grab the next knife available to avoid loss of custom to a nearby competitor?

[Kubur]

Hi guys
more of these
they are too nice to be butcher tools...

[OsobistGB]

My version is that they have become popular thanks to janissaries.I've seen different combinations....Knife and fork ..knife , fork and skewer , but these are later combinations.
I have an excellent set, which I think is the middle of XVIII century
As is known, janissaries have a special cult of eating.I suppose you know that instead of the battle flag they worship the bowl in which they prepare food for the horde.I suppose they used such utensils in their meals , and later and a consequence of richer merchants have taken this fashion and spread it across the Empire

[Kubur]

Originally Posted by OsobistGB

I have an excellent set, which I think is the middle of XVIII century
As is known, janissaries have a special cult of eating.I suppose you know that instead of the battle flag they worship the bowl in which they prepare food for the horde.I suppose they used such utensils in their meals , and later and a consequence of richer merchants have taken this fashion and spread it across the Empire

Your set is amazing. I have one very similar to the one sold by Ashoka.
North African, Algerian.
I didnt't know about the Janissaries.
I guess a translation of what is written on the blades could help... where is Ibraheem??

[Kubur]

I hope Mister Kwiatek will read this thread...
I need his help!!! Thanks

In Europe they call these trousses 'hunting trousses"...

[Oliver Pinchot]

It reads, Nasr Min Allah wa Fath Qarib (Assistance from God and victory near- Quran 61:13.) This is perhaps the most common inscription on any Islamic weapon. Doesn't seem likely it was intended to inspire the user to call upon his faith in order to cut up kebabs.

[Kubur]

Originally Posted by Oliver Pinchot

It reads, Nasr Min Allah wa Fath Qarib (Assistance from God and victory near- Quran 61:13.) This is perhaps the most common inscription on any Islamic weapon. Doesn't seem likely it was intended to inspire the user to call upon his faith in order to cut up kebabs.

Thank you
It depends if the meat is overcooked and hard to cut...

There is another trousse but i cannot post it as it is for sale!

[gp]

just cutlery, no weapons though...

there are also quite a lot on the market of the Bosniaken ( i.e. 1882-1916 period as described by me previously)

as for the Arab writing on the examples posted below by Kubur Effendi :
a neat knife but simple: normally a gentleman's knife would be more fanciful ( caligraphic).
I believe this set to be made either by a local bladesmith (from the countryside?) trying his best with an excellent result considering his skills on cold weapons (excellent} but on the art limit of decorating rather limited ... or someone trying to add something to just an average set, regardless if they belong to the scabbard...

some more nice trousse examples to look at :
https://fi.pinterest.com/alpbamsi/ot...trousse-knife/

[Battara]

I'll move this to the miscellaneous side.

[Kubur]

This is the wrong place...
These knives are around 40cm long and they are ot cutlery.
If all the knives around 40cm should be placed in the miscellania then you need to move half of the knives from ethnographic weapons to miscellania...
to be consistent

[gp]

Originally Posted by Kubur

This is the wrong place...
These knives are around 40cm long and they are not cutlery.
If all the knives around 40cm should be placed in the miscellania then you need to move half of the knives from ethnographic weapons to miscellania...
to be consistent

my apologies if I made a mistake! I know the "Bosniaken"ones were cutlery but thank you Kubur for correcting me on the pre Bosniak ones being knives / cold weapons!

[David]

Originally Posted by gp

my apologies if I made a mistake! I know the "Bosniaken"ones were cutlery but thank you Kubur for correcting me on the pre Bosniak ones being knives / cold weapons!

GP, a trousse is a trousse is a trousse. Regardless of size, if it is a trousse the intent is not to be a weapon, but rather a tool used for eating or preparing food. As such this discussion most definitely belongs in Misellaneous, not in the Weapon Forums.