Pala-translation if possible

DaveS · 6th February 2014, 05:47 AM

Here is a Turkish pala for viewing. Probably a parade sword. The blade is 27 inches long, 33 inches long overall. It is a blade of the sham variety and on this particular piece no pattern is seen in these pictures. I have learned that Turkish wootz blades seem to give problems that other blades don't when they are etched. Sometimes no matter how clean the metal is that there will be cloudy areas that appear, that on the next clean and etch will be in a different part of the blade. I have etched this blade over a dozen times with varying degrees of success. Sometimes the pattern is barely discernible, sometimes like these pictures, not able to see anything. I've tried different acids with very little luck. Over the years I have etched many, many blades, but this one is the toughest one that I've run up against. Any ideas?..........Dave.

DaveS · 6th February 2014, 05:51 AM

More pictures

DaveS · 16th February 2014, 05:40 AM

Is there no one who can help with a translation?????......Dave.

AJ1356 · 16th February 2014, 04:55 PM

Hi Dave,
It looks nice and very peculiar at the same time. The scabbard with corrals and turquoise looks nice, can you tell me it they are real stone or not? I've racked my brain but can't make anything out of the inscription on the scabbard. Now on to the blade, I could not make anything out of the Arabic portions of it, it is supposed to be Qur'anic verses but I could not figure out if it really is or just something someone semi literate tried. Maybe one of out Arabic speakers can help you with. The maker's seal can not be read at all, was it like that form the beginning or is that the result of many cleanings and etchings? On the 8th picture down, the top seals reads Servant of Shah e Welaayat, Nader. The only Nader that comes to my mind is Nader Afshar. But he was not Turkish, he ruled over-very shortly- over what are today Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan and India. So, it is possible that in the tradition of the Safawids, the sword smith used the inscription, but with Nader's name. Still, that does not justify the reduction in the quality, I saw a later sword, maybe belonging to one of Nader's generals with quality the same as the Safawids. Without holding the item I can't say for sure if it is a much later piece meant for the whatever, but I am kinda leaning that way.

DaveS · 16th February 2014, 07:43 PM

AJ1356: Yes, the stones are real. A friend of my wife who is involved in lapidary work confirmed that. The back of the scabbard looks to be the normal embossing kind of work, to my eye anyway. As far as the inscriptions go though, if it makes no sense to you then we will have to leave it at that, although I have read that many of the people that did these inscriptions were themselves illiterate.........Dave.

AJ1356 · 17th February 2014, 02:20 AM

Dave,
Upon inspections of the close up pic, it is right, the scabbard is NOT stamped.
It is possible that some of the inscription might be Turkish and not Farsi, Just the one seal.

Valjhun · 18th February 2014, 06:22 PM

Nice pala indeed.

I a similar dagger, which I posted some time ago for translation.

Can you help AJ1356?

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=18120

6th February 2014, 05:47 AM	#1
DaveS Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 327	Pala-translation if possible Here is a Turkish pala for viewing. Probably a parade sword. The blade is 27 inches long, 33 inches long overall. It is a blade of the sham variety and on this particular piece no pattern is seen in these pictures. I have learned that Turkish wootz blades seem to give problems that other blades don't when they are etched. Sometimes no matter how clean the metal is that there will be cloudy areas that appear, that on the next clean and etch will be in a different part of the blade. I have etched this blade over a dozen times with varying degrees of success. Sometimes the pattern is barely discernible, sometimes like these pictures, not able to see anything. I've tried different acids with very little luck. Over the years I have etched many, many blades, but this one is the toughest one that I've run up against. Any ideas?..........Dave. Attached Images

6th February 2014, 05:51 AM	#2
DaveS Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 327	More pictures More pictures Attached Images

16th February 2014, 04:55 PM	#4
AJ1356 Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Nashville Posts: 314	Hi Dave, It looks nice and very peculiar at the same time. The scabbard with corrals and turquoise looks nice, can you tell me it they are real stone or not? I've racked my brain but can't make anything out of the inscription on the scabbard. Now on to the blade, I could not make anything out of the Arabic portions of it, it is supposed to be Qur'anic verses but I could not figure out if it really is or just something someone semi literate tried. Maybe one of out Arabic speakers can help you with. The maker's seal can not be read at all, was it like that form the beginning or is that the result of many cleanings and etchings? On the 8th picture down, the top seals reads Servant of Shah e Welaayat, Nader. The only Nader that comes to my mind is Nader Afshar. But he was not Turkish, he ruled over-very shortly- over what are today Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan and India. So, it is possible that in the tradition of the Safawids, the sword smith used the inscription, but with Nader's name. Still, that does not justify the reduction in the quality, I saw a later sword, maybe belonging to one of Nader's generals with quality the same as the Safawids. Without holding the item I can't say for sure if it is a much later piece meant for the whatever, but I am kinda leaning that way. Last edited by AJ1356; 17th February 2014 at 02:17 AM.

16th February 2014, 05:40 AM	#3
DaveS Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 327	Is there no one who can help with a translation?????......Dave.

16th February 2014, 07:43 PM	#5
DaveS Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 327	AJ1356: Yes, the stones are real. A friend of my wife who is involved in lapidary work confirmed that. The back of the scabbard looks to be the normal embossing kind of work, to my eye anyway. As far as the inscriptions go though, if it makes no sense to you then we will have to leave it at that, although I have read that many of the people that did these inscriptions were themselves illiterate.........Dave.

17th February 2014, 02:20 AM	#6
AJ1356 Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Nashville Posts: 314	Dave, Upon inspections of the close up pic, it is right, the scabbard is NOT stamped. It is possible that some of the inscription might be Turkish and not Farsi, Just the one seal.

18th February 2014, 06:22 PM	#7
Valjhun Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 692	Nice pala indeed. I a similar dagger, which I posted some time ago for translation. Can you help AJ1356? http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=18120