Strange sumatran?? dagger

Athanase · 22nd December 2018, 10:14 PM

Hello,
I recently acquired this dagger in a lot of various indonesian daggers.

For me the general look is similar to that of a Gunong, but the whole construction of the handle and scabbard (typical red wood and buffalo horn) is characteristic of Sumatra.

The blade is made of steel and the guard in brass.

Blade length : 16cm

Unfortunatly mice love the buffalo horn....

David · 22nd December 2018, 10:51 PM

I am uncertain about the origin of the blade, but my general feeling is that this hilt has been salvaged off a Sumatran pedang. Hard to say why this all came together, but it seems like a mix-and-match.

Athanase · 23rd December 2018, 12:17 AM

Yes David, I also feel that the handle comes from a pedang.
The blade also seems to be a re-use, maybe an old reworked spear point?
The sheath seems to have been specially made for this assembly.

Sajen · 23rd December 2018, 08:29 AM

Hi Severin,

I agree with David, the handle is from a pedang which could be also from Lombok instead of from Sumatra. The dagger is a constrcut IMVHO, a native has build up his own dagger from pieces, good possible that the blade is from a tombak but could be a cut down pedang blade as well.

Regards,
Detlef

CharlesS · 23rd December 2018, 01:52 PM

I agree with the statements above. The blade almost looks like it belongs on a Moro punal/gunong.

kai · 23rd December 2018, 03:42 PM

Hello Séverin,

Quote:

For me the general look is similar to that of a Gunong, but the whole construction of the handle and scabbard (typical red wood and buffalo horn) is characteristic of Sumatra.

As already suggested, the hilt seems to be recycled from a pedang. It does look Sumatran rather than Lombok to me. Also the tip of the scabbard hints at a Malay origin

I like the notion that the blade could be a recycled tombak. Please take pics if you ever disassemble the piece. How thick is the blade at the base? It seems quite sturdy, isn't it?

BTW, the flow of lines does not really vibe with Moro punal IMHO. However, the no-nonsense blade is somewhat reminiscent of plain Moro pieces, indeed.

Quote:

Unfortunatly mice love the buffalo horn....

Rats and humans seem to be the more likely culprits - washing the hands after dinner helps to reduce the risks of hungry rodents gnawing away at hilts...

BTW, the "hole" at the scabbard mouth looks weird - any idea what happened there?

Regards,
Kai

Athanase · 23rd December 2018, 05:38 PM

Hello everybody. Thank you for your opinions.

Kai, it's not a hole but the rest of a hook for the belt (and that was probably a little longer before) .

The maximum thickness of the base blade (juste before brass gard) is 5.3mm and 1.9mm at 1cm from the tip.

kai · 23rd December 2018, 06:03 PM

Hello Séverin,

You're welcome!

Quote:

it's not a hole but the rest of a hook for the belt (and that was probably a little longer before) .

Uuuh, the horrid third dimension...

That's a quite unusual feature, especially with small daggers!

Quote:

The maximum thickness of the base blade (juste before brass gard) is 5.3mm and 1.9mm at 1cm from the tip.

Less than I expected. Well within the range of Moro punal/gunong - neither the blade nor the scabbard support such an origin though.

Whether this really got adapted from a tombak might only be seen after disassembling the piece and possibly etching the blade; of course, there is no need to do so...

Regards,
Kai

Battara · 23rd December 2018, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CharlesS

I agree with the statements above. The blade almost looks like it belongs on a Moro punal/gunong.

I was thinking the same thing!

Lots of trade in the area between both archipelagos.......

22nd December 2018, 10:14 PM	#1
Athanase Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Paris (France) Posts: 408	Strange sumatran?? dagger Hello, I recently acquired this dagger in a lot of various indonesian daggers. For me the general look is similar to that of a Gunong, but the whole construction of the handle and scabbard (typical red wood and buffalo horn) is characteristic of Sumatra. The blade is made of steel and the guard in brass. Blade length : 16cm Unfortunatly mice love the buffalo horn.... Attached Images

22nd December 2018, 10:51 PM	#2
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,121	I am uncertain about the origin of the blade, but my general feeling is that this hilt has been salvaged off a Sumatran pedang. Hard to say why this all came together, but it seems like a mix-and-match.

23rd December 2018, 12:17 AM	#3
Athanase Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Paris (France) Posts: 408	Yes David, I also feel that the handle comes from a pedang. The blade also seems to be a re-use, maybe an old reworked spear point? The sheath seems to have been specially made for this assembly.

23rd December 2018, 08:29 AM	#4
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,770	Hi Severin, I agree with David, the handle is from a pedang which could be also from Lombok instead of from Sumatra. The dagger is a constrcut IMVHO, a native has build up his own dagger from pieces, good possible that the blade is from a tombak but could be a cut down pedang blade as well. Regards, Detlef

23rd December 2018, 01:52 PM	#5
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,857	I agree with the statements above. The blade almost looks like it belongs on a Moro punal/gunong.

23rd December 2018, 05:38 PM	#7
Athanase Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Paris (France) Posts: 408	Hello everybody. Thank you for your opinions. Kai, it's not a hole but the rest of a hook for the belt (and that was probably a little longer before) . The maximum thickness of the base blade (juste before brass gard) is 5.3mm and 1.9mm at 1cm from the tip.