What's on your bookshelf?

[harrywagner]

I bought my first keris yesterday. I don't count the three souvenirs I bought for a song and dance, and let go for the same (I will post pics later).

I am interested in book recommendations from more experienced keris collectors that will help guide me. I have a decent library for Islamic and Oriental arms but nothing specifically about Indonesian weapons. I am primarily interested in practical material but don't mind a little 'knife porn'.

Thanks in advance for any help!

Harry

[A. G. Maisey]

This is a link to a page in my site, I believe you will find this to be a reasonably comprehensive list:-

http://kerisattosanaji.com/kerisinformation.html

David van Duuren's annotated bibliography is the best single source for reading recommendations.

If you only want one book, try to get a copy of "The World of the Javanese Keris" by Garrett and Bronwen Solyom.

[David]

I would certainly agree that Alan's list is fairly comprehensive. I own the large majority of references on it.
I would also emphasize that if you are at all serious about getting a handle on understanding the keris that you also check out some of the books on his "Cultural and Historical Background" list as understanding this weapon is absolutely impossible without grasping an idea of the culture from which the keris emerged and flourished. I highly recommend Visible and Invisible Realms by Margaret J.Wiener for an inside into Bali.

[Jean]

For a beginning collector I would highly recommend the Krisdisk from the late Kasten Sejr Jensen, it may not be easy to find but should be available at the Ethnographic Art Books Library in Leiden (The Netherlands) or from Dutch sellers like Devriesantiek on Marktplaats. This is the best picture book about the keris IMO and it includes a well documented keris history as well.
Regards

[harrywagner]

Many thanks for the replies. It is incredibly helpful to be able to get recommendations like this.

Here are a few photos of my first keris. I can't imagine why these did not seem appealing to me sooner! I like it, but know almost nothing about Indonesian weapons (yet). Any comments would be most welcome. No need to tip-toe around. I've a long history of buyer mistakes and am able to just laugh them off.

Cheers!
Harry

[David]

One thing to absolutely keep in mind Harry is that almost none of these books on keris can be 100% accurate all the time. I believe "The World of the Javanese Keris" by Garrett and Bronwen Solyom is perhaps one of the most accurate of all these books, though it does deal with only a small area of the keris world. You will also encounter a great deal of conflicting information from book to book, especially when dealing with names of pamor patterns and dhapurs and such. Names change from region to region, so this info is not necessary wrong, just different. Names also change over time periods sometimes.
You will also find that certain books merely repeat old myths and legends that don't necessarily hold water (though may have some cultural value).
In the words, all reading on things keris are best taken with a few grains of salt.

[David]

I would suggest that you start a new thread to talk about this first keris of yours since this thread was started as a query on books.

[harrywagner]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

This is a link to a page in my site, I believe you will find this to be a reasonably comprehensive list:-

http://kerisattosanaji.com/kerisinformation.html

David van Duuren's annotated bibliography is the best single source for reading recommendations.

If you only want one book, try to get a copy of "The World of the Javanese Keris" by Garrett and Bronwen Solyom.

Wow! Great resource. Many thanks.

[harrywagner]

Originally Posted by David

I would suggest that you start a new thread to talk about this first keris of yours since this thread was started as a query on books.

Thanks David. Good idea. What's the common practice for doing that? Should I just upload the photos again to the new post or just link to the photos in this post?

[Henk]

I think you should upload the pictures in your new thread.

[David]

Originally Posted by Henk

I think you should upload the pictures in your new thread.

I agree with Henk and see that you have already done so. So hopefully folks will comment on it over there.
More conversation on books here is always welcome as well.

[A. G. Maisey]

David, I do agree with just about all of your comments in respect of the published writings on the keris, but I cannot agree when you say all that :-
"--- all reading on things keris are best taken with a few grains of salt ---".

I do not challenge the few grains of salt, in fact I reckon we could use a whole salt cellar and still come up short when we consider some of the writings on the keris, and that is not only recent writings, and not only writings in English.

However, some writing on the keris must be taken seriously. One of the works which must be taken seriously is the Solyoms' publication. This is the reason I repeatedly recommend it to anybody who asks. Yes, its scope is limited, but it is about as good as any publication on the physical aspects of the keris can ever be.

May I suggest that rather than "all reading", we might be able to consider that "most reading" more accurately reflects the situation in respect of published writing on the keris?

Your comments on gaining an understanding of the cultural background to the keris, I endorse wholeheartedly.

[David]

Now now Alan, i think you are nitpicking my words just a bit too much. What i wrote was immediately after stating "I believe 'The World of the Javanese Keris' by Garrett and Bronwen Solyom is perhaps one of the most accurate of all these books, though it does deal with only a small area of the keris world". I agree with you completely on this book to the best of my own personal experience to say. I will happily concede to use of the word "most" over "all". I was simply turning a phrase there. What more, i have certainly not read ALL books on keris so i couldn't possible know if there are even any others of equal accuracy to the Solyom book. It an excellent work for sure.
However, by "grain of salt" i did not intend "disbelief". I didn't really even mean anything as strong as "doubt". Merely a healthy state of skepticism. In an infinite universe even things we are fairly certain of might well turn out not to be correct in the face of new research and evidence. And a little salt usually makes my food taste a little better.

[A. G. Maisey]

Please accept my apologies David, if I interpreted your "pinch of salt" comment a little too literally. My problem is that I have earnt my living for most of my life by being a professional nit-picker, and on things that I take seriously, yes, I do tend to over-pick the nits.

[David]

Apology accepted, but unnecessary. I was merely trying to make my position more clear.

[Gavin Nugent]

Some but certainly not all, many more a boxed away until the reading room shelving is complete...I'll be happy to publish them later if there is interest

Some are of no literary use to me at all as I only read English...but images often speak volumes, more so if the caption that are not in English translate well.

Gavin

[Gavin Nugent]

And more.

[harrywagner]

Wow. Thanks Gavin. Great library!

[David]

Nice illustrative posting Gavin. I would love to find that Keris Bali book at a reasonable price some day.

[Gavin Nugent]

Originally Posted by David

Nice illustrative posting Gavin. I would love to find that Keris Bali book at a reasonable price some day.

Thanks Harry, David.

David, remind me near the end of October and I'll have a dig around for you.

Here is a snap of some more I have unpacked...I have a long list of images somewhere within my PC of other titles that I am yet to seek out...I'll post them if I find them.

Gavin

[Jean]

Originally Posted by David

Nice illustrative posting Gavin. I would love to find that Keris Bali book at a reasonable price some day.

Hi David,
I have this Keris Bali book written by I.B Dibia and although the author did his best, the information provided in it is not very accurate IMO.
Regards

[Jean]

Hi Gavin,
Where did you find this nice copy of the rare book "Armes Orientales" by P. Holstein? I saw it for sale on Amazon I think but at an incredible price!
Regards

[A. G. Maisey]

be kind jean.

he was a very enthusiastic gentleman who did his best.

yeah, a few things we could all find to disagree with, but the author has moved on, and any criticism we make he can no longer respond to

[Gavin Nugent]

Originally Posted by Jean

Hi Gavin,
Where did you find this nice copy of the rare book "Armes Orientales" by P. Holstein? I saw it for sale on Amazon I think but at an incredible price!
Regards

Hi Jean,

The titles started in their simple original beige coloured light card covers and all the pages were unopened...I picked them up rather cheap, $110 from memory...I carried these for years in wait for the right local book binder to come along and he did through industry contacts...The price I paid for binding was still less that a good old rebound set sells for so I was happy to extend myself for this bespoke binding and padded slip case, now preserved for future generations.

Gavin

[Jean]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

be kind jean.

he was a very enthusiastic gentleman who did his best.

yeah, a few things we could all find to disagree with, but the author has moved on, and any criticism we make he can no longer respond to

Hello Alan,
Sorry for my criticism and I agree that the author was very enthusiastic and his book was the only reference about balinese krisses before the publishing of the one from the Neka Museum.
And I know how difficult it is to avoid writing mistakes in kris books...
Regards

[Jean]

Originally Posted by Gavin Nugent

Hi Jean,

The titles started in their simple original beige coloured light card covers and all the pages were unopened...I picked them up rather cheap, $110 from memory...I carried these for years in wait for the right local book binder to come along and he did through industry contacts...The price I paid for binding was still less that a good old rebound set sells for so I was happy to extend myself for this bespoke binding and padded slip case, now preserved for future generations.

Gavin

Thanks Gavin and well done!
Regards

[David]

Originally Posted by Jean

Hi David,
I have this Keris Bali book written by I.B Dibia and although the author did his best, the information provided in it is not very accurate IMO.
Regards

Thanks for your appraisal on this book Jean. One reason i have not put down the high prices i have seen it selling for is lack of personal experience with the quality of information it holds. While i agree that kindness is a generally a good course of action i appreciate your honest assessment.

[Gavin Nugent]

I uncovered a few more today...still many more buried here...am so looking forward to the shelving being completed.

Gavin

[Jean]

I was lucky to recently acquire the French version of this master work published in 1977 by Dr Urs Ramseyer about the Balinese culture, and I highly recommend it! It is very documented but also entertaining because of the numerous pictures.
Regards