Keris boy

brekele · 4th December 2008, 07:34 PM

I heard few years ago that there is keris for a boy. (For ceremony).
Finally, by searcing in internet, I found a pic of small boy holding keris.
First impression was shocked and starting big questions, How come adult let a small boy holding sharp keris?

But after few minutes watching this pic carefully, I came up with feeling that new generation (Keris lover) of Indonesian people is just starting.
As I know for many people in Indonesia, keris is stil sinengker (English? )

Hmm....., This pic made me said...Hey, baby boy is born (keris boy). The new generation stil can learning about keris from their own Indonesian people. At least nightmare of older Indonesian keris lover should not happend.

Gentleman, what is your impression after watching this pic?

bre.

Rick · 4th December 2008, 09:11 PM

Teach your children well ...

asomotif · 4th December 2008, 09:25 PM

And keep warangan / keris oil and any other chemicals locked away !

A. G. Maisey · 4th December 2008, 10:33 PM

Absolutely and totally inappropriate.

A child, particularly one as young as this one, has no connection to the keris as a cultural symbol.

Since before the time of Majapahit , the keris has been a symbol of the male. Its place is together with a male past the age of puberty, not with a baby. The child in this photo is of an age where it is possible that it might not even have a real name. It is certainly not a member of its community. It has no right to be in possession of a keris.

On the other hand ---if we are looking at a posed photograph that is somebody's idea of "cute", I guess that we can accept the "cuteness" as OK. Not everybody is attuned to traditional values.

PS--- I don't know that it is possible to give a precise translation of the idea of "sinengker", but this word has the sense of "secret", or "hidden", or "undisclosed", or "unrevealed"---and so on.

Lew · 4th December 2008, 11:28 PM

I don't think it is very wise to give a 4 yr old a keris. People do foolish things whether if it is a keris or gun like what happen last month when some fool gave an 8 year old a loaded uzi to shoot some pumpkins and the poor kid could not control the gun and ended up killing himself. Btw I noticed a bottle of J.W. scotch in the background sitting on the floor next to the boy? Another smart move by the parents of this kid

.

Lew

kulbuntet · 5th December 2008, 01:49 AM

Oke in our eyes it looks ..bad.

Now in an other perspective... Reincarnation!!

We dont know the history of the keris in the pic.

Let's say that i'm in the 15th reincarnation now. In my 11th reincarnation i was a indo.. that got his keris when i became a adult. I had a good life and my keris too. I die, my keris dont die..it lives on. My keris wil try to get to me in my later reincarnations! Now in my 15th, my keris found me(we think we wil find the keris, that's not posible...a keris picks you, you dont pick the keris. you only think you do!). And the both of us are senang again. Story with happy ending

Now place this story in the photo, changes the view...doesn't it?

Regards Michel

A. G. Maisey · 5th December 2008, 02:31 AM

There are many ways in which to consider all things.

David · 5th December 2008, 05:33 AM

Well, i, like Lew, am more concerned with all the other dangerous things this kid's parents seem to leave at child level, like the bottle of scotch and who knows what else in those other bottles. Also, letting a child this age hold a keris under the supervision of adults is one thing, but it would appear that a keris stand full of other sharp and pointies is kept on the floor where this child can always get at them.
I will admit that the photo seems to show that the child has some understanding, respect and/or recognition of the keris in his hand, but photos can be deceptive that way, showing us only a fraction of a second in time that doesn't tell the full truth of the moment.
I agree with Alan that the keris should be reserved for an older age, understanding and participation in community, though i do think that children should be taught the history. But there is a time and place for possession and ownership, and i am not sure that this is the correct age for that.
I would say that even if this keris did belong to this child in a previous incarnation, that there is still a proper time for him to take repossession of it. If he is indeed in his 15th incarnation he should probably know that himself as well.

Jussi M. · 5th December 2008, 07:30 AM

Greetings,

Irresponsible is the best word I can come up with. I dont like this picture.

Thanks,

J

asomotif · 5th December 2008, 11:36 PM

Ps. it looks a bit as if Winnie the Pooh is also trying to get hold of the keris.

But seriously, sharp pointy things are no toys.
And considering indeed Alan's argument keris are by definition not for children.

4th December 2008, 07:34 PM	#1
brekele Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 208	Keris boy I heard few years ago that there is keris for a boy. (For ceremony). Finally, by searcing in internet, I found a pic of small boy holding keris. First impression was shocked and starting big questions, How come adult let a small boy holding sharp keris? But after few minutes watching this pic carefully, I came up with feeling that new generation (Keris lover) of Indonesian people is just starting. As I know for many people in Indonesia, keris is stil sinengker (English? ) Hmm....., This pic made me said...Hey, baby boy is born (keris boy). The new generation stil can learning about keris from their own Indonesian people. At least nightmare of older Indonesian keris lover should not happend. Gentleman, what is your impression after watching this pic? bre. Attached Images

4th December 2008, 10:33 PM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,892	Absolutely and totally inappropriate. A child, particularly one as young as this one, has no connection to the keris as a cultural symbol. Since before the time of Majapahit , the keris has been a symbol of the male. Its place is together with a male past the age of puberty, not with a baby. The child in this photo is of an age where it is possible that it might not even have a real name. It is certainly not a member of its community. It has no right to be in possession of a keris. On the other hand ---if we are looking at a posed photograph that is somebody's idea of "cute", I guess that we can accept the "cuteness" as OK. Not everybody is attuned to traditional values. PS--- I don't know that it is possible to give a precise translation of the idea of "sinengker", but this word has the sense of "secret", or "hidden", or "undisclosed", or "unrevealed"---and so on. Last edited by A. G. Maisey; 4th December 2008 at 11:59 PM.

5th December 2008, 02:31 AM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,892	There are many ways in which to consider all things. Last edited by A. G. Maisey; 5th December 2008 at 03:26 AM.

4th December 2008, 09:11 PM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Teach your children well ...

4th December 2008, 09:25 PM	#3
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,225	And keep warangan / keris oil and any other chemicals locked away !

4th December 2008, 11:28 PM	#5
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	I don't think it is very wise to give a 4 yr old a keris. People do foolish things whether if it is a keris or gun like what happen last month when some fool gave an 8 year old a loaded uzi to shoot some pumpkins and the poor kid could not control the gun and ended up killing himself. Btw I noticed a bottle of J.W. scotch in the background sitting on the floor next to the boy? Another smart move by the parents of this kid . Lew

5th December 2008, 01:49 AM	#6
kulbuntet Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands Posts: 159	Oke in our eyes it looks ..bad. Now in an other perspective... Reincarnation!! We dont know the history of the keris in the pic. Let's say that i'm in the 15th reincarnation now. In my 11th reincarnation i was a indo.. that got his keris when i became a adult. I had a good life and my keris too. I die, my keris dont die..it lives on. My keris wil try to get to me in my later reincarnations! Now in my 15th, my keris found me(we think we wil find the keris, that's not posible...a keris picks you, you dont pick the keris. you only think you do!). And the both of us are senang again. Story with happy ending Now place this story in the photo, changes the view...doesn't it? Regards Michel

5th December 2008, 05:33 AM	#8
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,123	Well, i, like Lew, am more concerned with all the other dangerous things this kid's parents seem to leave at child level, like the bottle of scotch and who knows what else in those other bottles. Also, letting a child this age hold a keris under the supervision of adults is one thing, but it would appear that a keris stand full of other sharp and pointies is kept on the floor where this child can always get at them. I will admit that the photo seems to show that the child has some understanding, respect and/or recognition of the keris in his hand, but photos can be deceptive that way, showing us only a fraction of a second in time that doesn't tell the full truth of the moment. I agree with Alan that the keris should be reserved for an older age, understanding and participation in community, though i do think that children should be taught the history. But there is a time and place for possession and ownership, and i am not sure that this is the correct age for that. I would say that even if this keris did belong to this child in a previous incarnation, that there is still a proper time for him to take repossession of it. If he is indeed in his 15th incarnation he should probably know that himself as well.

5th December 2008, 07:30 AM	#9
Jussi M. Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 235	Greetings, Irresponsible is the best word I can come up with. I dont like this picture. Thanks, J

5th December 2008, 11:36 PM	#10
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,225	Ps. it looks a bit as if Winnie the Pooh is also trying to get hold of the keris. But seriously, sharp pointy things are no toys. And considering indeed Alan's argument keris are by definition not for children.