1530-50 wheel-lock pistols originally belonging to the Emperor Charles

Matchlock · 21st September 2008, 08:49 PM

... now in the Real Armeria in Madrid.

The oldest two made in Augsburg/Bavaria and dated 1530 and 1531 respectively.

Michael

Matchlock · 21st September 2008, 09:02 PM

The barrel struck twice with the sickle mark of Bartholome Marquart the Elder of Augsburg and the date 1530.

This is the earliest dated wheel-lock firearm in the world.

Preserved in the Real Armeria, Madrid.

Matchlock · 21st September 2008, 09:14 PM

Gilt, carved and bone (not ivory!) inlaid all over.

Another personal weapon of the Roman Emperor Charles V and preserved in Madrid.

Overall lentgh 78 cm.

Michael

Matchlock · 21st September 2008, 09:55 PM

Note the original scabbards that once had accompanied the guns, and the small leather pouches attached to them for accouterments!

Although these water colors have sadly only been published in b/w, it has actually been possible to even identify a few suriving items.

On display in the Real Armeria in Madrid there are small-size color copies from the Inventario Iluminado.

So, folks, if anybody out there got contacts to the Madrid museum staff and could get me high-resolution copies - that would sure help a lot.

Michael

celtan · 13th October 2008, 01:35 PM

Sweet!

Hey Michael, would you happen to have more pics of the items in the Rael Armeria ? I'm specially interested in...actually, I'm interrested in everything, except armor.

Best

Manuel Luis

Matchlock · 20th October 2008, 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by celtan

Sweet!

Hey Michael, would you happen to have more pics of the items in the Rael Armeria ? I'm specially interested in...actually, I'm interrested in everything, except armor.

Best

Manuel Luis

Hey Manuel Luis,

Unfortunately photos from the Real Armería Madrid are extremely rare as they never seem to have cooperated with arms students. I regret I've got only those showing firearms.

Best,
Michael

Matchlock · 21st October 2008, 10:25 PM

Manuel Luis,

If you happen to live in Spain, couldn't you go to the Real Armería, take good photos and share them?!
That would be great!

Michael

Marc · 22nd October 2008, 01:18 PM

Michael (if I may so),
The lighting conditions of the actual exhibition layout of the Real Armería in Madrid (RAM) are not exactly ideal for photographing. It's allowed, yes, but not with tripods, and flash is absolutely forbidden. This makes things somewhat difficult when trying to get decent pictures...

The sad part is that the RAM has a very small amount of publications regarding their collection, although the extremely few they put out are of very high quality. I'm sure I don't have to point you, although it deals with a much later time period than the one you focus on, to the last work by Álvaro Soler Del Campo, RAM's curator, published in occasion of last year's exhibition on their collection of "arquebuses" from Madrid's workshops. The reference for the book is:

SOLER DEL CAMPO, Álvaro (2006), "Catálogo de arcabucería madrileña (1687-1833) Real Armería de Madrid", Ed. Patrimonio Nacional, Madrid.
Hardback, Folio, 409 pp.
ISBN-10:8471204010
ISBN-13:9788471204011

The exhibition was fantastic, the actual pieces in the RAM are outstanding, and the catalog is extremely good, both from the artistic and the academic point of view. It's in Spanish, though, I have to say.

Matchlock · 22nd October 2008, 11:33 PM

Marc,

Thank you so much for the information kindly provided about the Real Armería Madrid (RAM).

I was aware of the bad lighting conditions; a friend of mine was there and had a very expensive camera but the low light, the glass and the red decoration spoilt almost everything. The other pics that I posted I had found in the internet, accompanied by the same kind of comments.

Actually there is a number of very good and large photos of some of the RAM's earliest harquebuses and pistols (I posted one of them above) in
Javier Sagrera Azpillaga: Apuntes de la Armería Espanola, siglos XVI a XIX. Madrid, 2001. ISBN 84-607-2327-5. 502 pp. (ca. 150-160 USD).

It is a highly recommendable book, notwithstanding the fact that many of the wheel-lock and flintlock pistols from an apparently private collection are partly fakes and/or in very poor condition.

I am always grateful for hints on new or old publications where 15th/16th century firearms are illustrated, especially from the RAM. Nobody is perfect, neither is my library.

I am also in desparate search of color illustations from Charles V's Inventario Iluminado. They have them in the RAM but they will not answer back to a foreigner.

If anyone could make contacts to the staff of the RAM for me, that would be really great!!! Writing and reading Spanish is not the problem.

Michael

fernando · 23rd October 2008, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matchlock

... I am always grateful for hints on new or old publications where 15th/16th century firearms are illustrated, especially from the RAM. Nobody is perfect, neither is my library ...

Hi Michael,
You probably have this one ... but just in case:
'A History of SPANISH FIREARMS' by James D. Lavin (1965).
It contains various pieces made by the Marquarts, including the one you posted above, as well as from other smiths, as other specimens from the Real Armeria.
I bought an used copy, couple years ago; it's nice and rather comprehensive ... in my layman's perspective.
Fernando

fernando · 23rd October 2008, 12:33 AM

Hola Marc,
Have sent you an email.
Thanks
Fernando

Matchlock · 23rd October 2008, 12:41 AM

Thank you, Fernando,

I have Lavin's book. It is good but the quality of the most important part - the photos - is a catastrophe.

He illustrates two pages from the Inventario Iluminado, and these I need in color!

Thanks again,
Michael

Matchlock · 23rd October 2008, 01:17 AM

Actually there is a number of very good and large photos of some of the RAM's earliest harquebuses and pistols in
Javier Sagrera Azpillaga: Apuntes de la Armería Espanola, siglos XVI a XIX. Madrid, 2001. ISBN 84-607-2327-5. 502 pp. (ca. 150-160 USD).

I attach a scan of the small (ca. 80 cm) Spanish wheel-lock harquebus, the barrel dated 1555 or 1565, pictured on the cover.

It was sold at Sotheby's a couple of years ago. Although it features on the cover I could not find any reference in the book.

It may have been purchased by the RAM - does anyone know its whereabouts?

Michael

Marc · 23rd October 2008, 03:17 PM

Michael,

It's a pleasure to be of any help.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matchlock

I was aware of the bad lighting conditions; a friend of mine was there and had a very expensive camera but the low light, the glass and the red decoration spoilt almost everything.

You tell ME

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matchlock

I am also in desparate search of color illustations from Charles V's Inventario Iluminado. They have them in the RAM but they will not answer back to a foreigner.

If it makes you feel any better, for the locals isn't easy to have an answer back, either. It's not an excuse, but the RAM is absolutely understaffed and those who work there have to deal with a lot of things unrelated with strictly curatorial tasks. On the other hand, the "inventario" has not been published, as far as I know ( I DO want also a copy), so getting these images may be tricky... to say the less.
Anyway, you can contact me via e-mail, let's see if something can be worked out.
Best,
Marc

Matchlock · 23rd October 2008, 04:59 PM

Thank you so much, Marc!

Please send a private message containing your email - thanks again.

Michael

fernando · 24th October 2008, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc

... SOLER DEL CAMPO, Álvaro (2006), "Catálogo de arcabucería madrileña (1687-1833) Real Armería de Madrid", Ed. Patrimonio Nacional, Madrid...

Thanks for the hint (and help) Marc; my copy is ordered.
Being Spanish armoury, is also Iberian; being Iberian is inevitably familiar to Portuguese. I will certainly apreciate and learn with its contents.
Fernando

fernando · 11th November 2008, 02:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc

... SOLER DEL CAMPO, Álvaro (2006), "Catálogo de arcabucería madrileña (1687-1833) Real Armería de Madrid", Ed. Patrimonio Nacional, Madrid.
The exhibition was fantastic, the actual pieces in the RAM are outstanding, and the catalog is extremely good, both from the artistic and the academic point of view. It's in Spanish, though, I have to say.

Just received my copy.
To call it a 'catalogue' gives a wrong idea.
It's indeed a hard cover dust jacketed book; three kilos of it. Top quality material. The nicest possible price; even nicer shipping costs.
Fernando

Marc · 11th November 2008, 09:37 AM

I'm glad you liked it and that the transaction with the shop went well. Yes, I should have mentioned the book is like a brick, I'm sorry...

celtan · 20th November 2008, 02:22 AM

Hi Guys,

I'm sorry I missed this repartee, I found it accidentally while looking for illustrations of a thundermug, for a class I'm giving on flintlock history and use.

I do have some books dealing with the Spanish Weaponry, such as the "El Museo del Ejercito" and the "Armeria del Palacio Real de Madrid".

Should you need any illustration from those, let me know and I'll scan same.

Sadly Mike, I live in the US. I haven't been to the Real Armeria since I was 12 yo...

Best

M

BTW: Saw the catalog a couple days ago at a local book show, it goes locally for $250.00, but it's all about private pieces, and doesn't go into military weaponry at all.

21st September 2008, 08:49 PM	#1
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	1530-50 wheel-lock pistols originally belonging to the Emperor Charles ... now in the Real Armeria in Madrid. The oldest two made in Augsburg/Bavaria and dated 1530 and 1531 respectively. Michael Attached Images

21st September 2008, 09:02 PM	#2
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Dated 1530: the earliest of Charles V's pistols The barrel struck twice with the sickle mark of Bartholome Marquart the Elder of Augsburg and the date 1530. This is the earliest dated wheel-lock firearm in the world. Preserved in the Real Armeria, Madrid. Attached Images

21st September 2008, 09:14 PM	#3
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Dated 1531: The world's finest pistol in existence Gilt, carved and bone (not ivory!) inlaid all over. Another personal weapon of the Roman Emperor Charles V and preserved in Madrid. Overall lentgh 78 cm. Michael Attached Images

21st September 2008, 09:55 PM	#4
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Charles V's Inventario Iluminado Note the original scabbards that once had accompanied the guns, and the small leather pouches attached to them for accouterments! Although these water colors have sadly only been published in b/w, it has actually been possible to even identify a few suriving items. On display in the Real Armeria in Madrid there are small-size color copies from the Inventario Iluminado. So, folks, if anybody out there got contacts to the Madrid museum staff and could get me high-resolution copies - that would sure help a lot. Michael Attached Images

23rd October 2008, 01:17 AM	#13
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Actually there is a number of very good and large photos of some of the RAM's earliest harquebuses and pistols in Javier Sagrera Azpillaga: Apuntes de la Armería Espanola, siglos XVI a XIX. Madrid, 2001. ISBN 84-607-2327-5. 502 pp. (ca. 150-160 USD). I attach a scan of the small (ca. 80 cm) Spanish wheel-lock harquebus, the barrel dated 1555 or 1565, pictured on the cover. It was sold at Sotheby's a couple of years ago. Although it features on the cover I could not find any reference in the book. It may have been purchased by the RAM - does anyone know its whereabouts? Michael Attached Images

13th October 2008, 01:35 PM	#5
celtan Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: PR, USA Posts: 679	Sweet! Hey Michael, would you happen to have more pics of the items in the Rael Armeria ? I'm specially interested in...actually, I'm interrested in everything, except armor. Best Manuel Luis

21st October 2008, 10:25 PM	#7
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Manuel Luis, If you happen to live in Spain, couldn't you go to the Real Armería, take good photos and share them?! That would be great! Michael

22nd October 2008, 01:18 PM	#8
Marc Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Madrid / Barcelona Posts: 256	Michael (if I may so), The lighting conditions of the actual exhibition layout of the Real Armería in Madrid (RAM) are not exactly ideal for photographing. It's allowed, yes, but not with tripods, and flash is absolutely forbidden. This makes things somewhat difficult when trying to get decent pictures... The sad part is that the RAM has a very small amount of publications regarding their collection, although the extremely few they put out are of very high quality. I'm sure I don't have to point you, although it deals with a much later time period than the one you focus on, to the last work by Álvaro Soler Del Campo, RAM's curator, published in occasion of last year's exhibition on their collection of "arquebuses" from Madrid's workshops. The reference for the book is: SOLER DEL CAMPO, Álvaro (2006), "Catálogo de arcabucería madrileña (1687-1833) Real Armería de Madrid", Ed. Patrimonio Nacional, Madrid. Hardback, Folio, 409 pp. ISBN-10:8471204010 ISBN-13:9788471204011 The exhibition was fantastic, the actual pieces in the RAM are outstanding, and the catalog is extremely good, both from the artistic and the academic point of view. It's in Spanish, though, I have to say.

22nd October 2008, 11:33 PM	#9
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Marc, Thank you so much for the information kindly provided about the Real Armería Madrid (RAM). I was aware of the bad lighting conditions; a friend of mine was there and had a very expensive camera but the low light, the glass and the red decoration spoilt almost everything. The other pics that I posted I had found in the internet, accompanied by the same kind of comments. Actually there is a number of very good and large photos of some of the RAM's earliest harquebuses and pistols (I posted one of them above) in Javier Sagrera Azpillaga: Apuntes de la Armería Espanola, siglos XVI a XIX. Madrid, 2001. ISBN 84-607-2327-5. 502 pp. (ca. 150-160 USD). It is a highly recommendable book, notwithstanding the fact that many of the wheel-lock and flintlock pistols from an apparently private collection are partly fakes and/or in very poor condition. I am always grateful for hints on new or old publications where 15th/16th century firearms are illustrated, especially from the RAM. Nobody is perfect, neither is my library. I am also in desparate search of color illustations from Charles V's Inventario Iluminado. They have them in the RAM but they will not answer back to a foreigner. If anyone could make contacts to the staff of the RAM for me, that would be really great!!! Writing and reading Spanish is not the problem. Michael

23rd October 2008, 12:33 AM	#11
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Hola Marc, Have sent you an email. Thanks Fernando

23rd October 2008, 12:41 AM	#12
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Thank you, Fernando, I have Lavin's book. It is good but the quality of the most important part - the photos - is a catastrophe. He illustrates two pages from the Inventario Iluminado, and these I need in color! Thanks again, Michael

23rd October 2008, 04:59 PM	#15
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Thank you so much, Marc! Please send a private message containing your email - thanks again. Michael

11th November 2008, 09:37 AM	#18
Marc Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Madrid / Barcelona Posts: 256	I'm glad you liked it and that the transaction with the shop went well. Yes, I should have mentioned the book is like a brick, I'm sorry...

20th November 2008, 02:22 AM	#19
celtan Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: PR, USA Posts: 679	Hi Guys, I'm sorry I missed this repartee, I found it accidentally while looking for illustrations of a thundermug, for a class I'm giving on flintlock history and use. I do have some books dealing with the Spanish Weaponry, such as the "El Museo del Ejercito" and the "Armeria del Palacio Real de Madrid". Should you need any illustration from those, let me know and I'll scan same. Sadly Mike, I live in the US. I haven't been to the Real Armeria since I was 12 yo... Best M BTW: Saw the catalog a couple days ago at a local book show, it goes locally for $250.00, but it's all about private pieces, and doesn't go into military weaponry at all.