Help with an African knife

Gavin Nugent · 31st March 2008, 11:48 AM

This is one of 2 African knives I have here. Overall this one is 52cms long in the scabbard and 49.5cms long without the scabbard. The images do speak better than what I could do to describe it. The pattern carved into the wood reminds me of a crocodile's back to some degree. The scabbard is 2 pieces of wood held together at the base by what I beleive looks like animal sinew. The reverse of the scabbard has no carving.
What is it, where did it come from and PM me if you can help with the question I am not supposed to ask here.

thanks

Gav

Gavin Nugent · 31st March 2008, 11:49 AM

Further images for viewing.

thanks

Gav

katana · 31st March 2008, 01:26 PM

Hi Gav
likely a Shona knife or neighbouring tribes would be my best 'educated' (

) guess.

Regards David

Just found this...

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=shona

Rod Charters · 31st March 2008, 05:49 PM

Looks Shona to me also.

Best Regards

Rod

Tim Simmons · 31st March 2008, 06:25 PM

Is nice, saying Shona one has to think of a big foot print to take in neighbouring people.

Gavin Nugent · 31st March 2008, 10:52 PM

Thank you for the link David, thank you too Rod and Tim.

As this piece shows no sign of ever having copper or brass mounting and only have one small area or corded sinew holding it together, would this pre-date the others in the link provided and if so, how old would it be?

regards

Gavin

katana · 1st April 2008, 03:49 AM

Hi Gav,

AFAIK the wire work on Shona knives was of better 'craftsmanship' mid to late 19thC, early 20thC was not as good and late 20th worse. I'll try and 'dig' out the reference.

So the problem is , if this is definately Shona ....was it manufactured early 19thC (or there abouts ...as there is no wirework) or early 20th C onwards. The condition of the wood suggests the later.
But, this may not be Shona ....but a neighbouring tribe whom have adopted the style ...in this case it is more difficult to tell.

I think the patina of the wood would be the most accurate to date this knife....and with the condition of the rusted 'bent over' tang I think mid 20thC maybe a little earlier. I wonder if this may be a WW2 'bring back'....but this is only my opinion based on your pictures. To have it 'in hand' might tell a different story. Hopefully, someone else may have other opinions?

One other thing...the size of the knife is verging on the short sword 'category' and would be called a 'bakatwa'

All the best

David

31st March 2008, 11:48 AM	#1
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Help with an African knife This is one of 2 African knives I have here. Overall this one is 52cms long in the scabbard and 49.5cms long without the scabbard. The images do speak better than what I could do to describe it. The pattern carved into the wood reminds me of a crocodile's back to some degree. The scabbard is 2 pieces of wood held together at the base by what I beleive looks like animal sinew. The reverse of the scabbard has no carving. What is it, where did it come from and PM me if you can help with the question I am not supposed to ask here. thanks Gav Attached Images

31st March 2008, 11:49 AM	#2
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	More images Further images for viewing. thanks Gav Attached Images

31st March 2008, 01:26 PM	#3
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Hi Gav likely a Shona knife or neighbouring tribes would be my best 'educated' ( ) guess. Regards David Just found this... http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=shona Last edited by katana; 31st March 2008 at 03:27 PM.

31st March 2008, 10:52 PM	#6
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Thanks guys Thank you for the link David, thank you too Rod and Tim. As this piece shows no sign of ever having copper or brass mounting and only have one small area or corded sinew holding it together, would this pre-date the others in the link provided and if so, how old would it be? regards Gavin

31st March 2008, 05:49 PM	#4
Rod Charters Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 48	Looks Shona to me also. Best Regards Rod

31st March 2008, 06:25 PM	#5
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	Is nice, saying Shona one has to think of a big foot print to take in neighbouring people.

1st April 2008, 03:49 AM	#7
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Hi Gav, AFAIK the wire work on Shona knives was of better 'craftsmanship' mid to late 19thC, early 20thC was not as good and late 20th worse. I'll try and 'dig' out the reference. So the problem is , if this is definately Shona ....was it manufactured early 19thC (or there abouts ...as there is no wirework) or early 20th C onwards. The condition of the wood suggests the later. But, this may not be Shona ....but a neighbouring tribe whom have adopted the style ...in this case it is more difficult to tell. I think the patina of the wood would be the most accurate to date this knife....and with the condition of the rusted 'bent over' tang I think mid 20thC maybe a little earlier. I wonder if this may be a WW2 'bring back'....but this is only my opinion based on your pictures. To have it 'in hand' might tell a different story. Hopefully, someone else may have other opinions? One other thing...the size of the knife is verging on the short sword 'category' and would be called a 'bakatwa' All the best David