TABLE (?) for ID

thinreadline · 21st October 2016, 01:13 PM

Picked up this interesting table yesterday . I was wondering where it may originate from and whether it is actually a table or whether , as I suspect, it is a door or part of a screen or window shutter that has been adapted. It all looks very old and nothing appears to have been added recently . Dimensions 1.5 m x 650 mm and very low at 200 mm .

Bob A · 21st October 2016, 06:01 PM

FWIW, it looks like legs were added later. My first impression was Indian, but I really have no idea.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 21st October 2016, 08:15 PM

Indian Style...This is an Ayurveda massage table... You fill it with oil and get a massage on it... see https://www.google.com/search?q=indi...94lW13nDyTM%3A

Bob A · 21st October 2016, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Indian Style...This is an Ayurveda massage table... You fill it with oil and get a massage on it... see https://www.google.com/search?q=indi...94lW13nDyTM%3A

Wow! I stand in awe of your range of awareness, as ever.

thinreadline · 21st October 2016, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Indian Style...This is an Ayurveda massage table... You fill it with oil and get a massage on it... see https://www.google.com/search?q=indi...94lW13nDyTM%3A

How astonishing , thank you very much .

A. G. Maisey · 21st October 2016, 11:13 PM

Possibly so, possibly no.

The central motif in this projection displays carving that in Jawa would be interpreted as a representation of a Gunungan, along with a Tree of Life. In Javanese understanding these two forms are analogous.

Javanese culture, material and otherwise, is heavily influenced by Indian culture.

thinreadline · 22nd October 2016, 01:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Possibly so, possibly no.

The central motif in this projection displays carving that in Jawa would be interpreted as a representation of a Gunungan, along with a Tree of Life. In Javanese understanding these two forms are analogous.

Javanese culture, material and otherwise, is heavily influenced by Indian culture.

Very interesting .... and its function ?

A. G. Maisey · 22nd October 2016, 02:26 AM

Not the vaguest idea.

I've never seen a low-line table like this in Jawa, but the carving style and general appearance of the thing could easily fit into a Javanese context.

My comment was only intended to address the motif and perhaps start a different line of thought.

In the Indian massage tables that I've seen, which are intended for use with oil, height is intended to facilitate use whilst standing, not whilst kneeling, and the projection at one end is bowl shaped to accept oil, most tables of this nature that I have seen have a border all round to prevent the oil dripping onto the floor.

thinreadline · 22nd October 2016, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Not the vaguest idea.

I've never seen a low-line table like this in Jawa, but the carving style and general appearance of the thing could easily fit into a Javanese context.

My comment was only intended to address the motif and perhaps start a different line of thought.

In the Indian massage tables that I've seen, which are intended for use with oil, height is intended to facilitate use whilst standing, not whilst kneeling, and the projection at one end is bowl shaped to accept oil, most tables of this nature that I have seen have a border all round to prevent the oil dripping onto the floor.

These are very pertinent points . The projection is flat and the opposite end is open , though is lighter coloured possibly indicating that an end piece has been removed or broken off.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 22nd October 2016, 10:02 PM

The item is incomplete... It has legs added to two struts underneath and crudely cut into the main bench... It is a couple of feet too short as can be seen by the end which has been roughly cut off. I even suspect that it hung from ropes from the roof...or more likely a couple of nails to hang it on a wall. There are interesting holes at the carved end. It is an ex-massage table

thinreadline · 23rd October 2016, 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

The item is incomplete... It has legs added to two struts underneath and crudely cut into the main bench... It is a couple of feet too short as can be seen by the end which has been roughly cut off. I even suspect that it hung from ropes from the roof...or more likely a couple of nails to hang it on a wall. There are interesting holes at the carved end. It is an ex-massage table

yes these are good points , thank you. Ah well lit is still a nice decorative item that I shall keep.

bhushan_lawate · 23rd October 2016, 08:27 AM

This is a part of a scrapping equipment (kitchen aid) used for cutting/ scrapping veggies and coconuts etc.

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=...a3bdbfbd40ddo0

something like the one on this link. The wooden section and the iron balde used for cutting/scrapping seems to be the missing part.

Thanks,
Bhushan

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 24th October 2016, 07:00 PM

I THINK THAT IS INTERESTING... I NEVER SAW A BOARD ATTACHED TO THE CUTTING SPIKE ARRANGEMENT...HOWEVER, I THINK IT IS TOO SMALL AND DOES NOT HAVE THE ARCH AT THE TOP... I STICK WITH MY REFERENCED SITUATION AS A MASSAGE TABLE.

A. G. Maisey · 24th October 2016, 10:41 PM

Ibrahim, you mention that your opinion is backed by a reference.

My knowledge of massage tables does not extend to this type, so I've been trying to find a picture of one of these Indian massage tables that does not have a bowl, or other provision for oil incorporated into the projecting part at one end.

Could you please oblige by sharing your reference with us?

Thank you.

Rick · 25th October 2016, 04:05 AM

Speaking strictly as an old New England Yankee; that wood looks very much like very old Eastern White Pine.
I grew up in a farmhouse built in 1690 so I've seen more than a bit of it.

Of course it's probably impossible that it is E.W.P., but it sure looks like it.

David · 25th October 2016, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

I THINK THAT IS INTERESTING... I NEVER SAW A BOARD ATTACHED TO THE CUTTING SPIKE ARRANGEMENT...HOWEVER, I THINK IT IS TOO SMALL AND DOES NOT HAVE THE ARCH AT THE TOP... I STICK WITH MY REFERENCED SITUATION AS A MASSAGE TABLE.

The link to the Ayurvedic message table you made does not really resemble this at all. Besides being too low to the ground the table simply isn't large enough. Yes, it could have been cut down length wise, but not width wise. Unless they made very small tables for little children i will search elsewhere for purpose here.

David · 25th October 2016, 06:31 PM

Here are many examples of such massage tables. I am afraid that this little thing does not have the capacity nor features to serve as such a table.
https://www.google.com/search?q=Ayur...w=1377&bih=787

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 26th October 2016, 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Not the vaguest idea.

I've never seen a low-line table like this in Jawa, but the carving style and general appearance of the thing could easily fit into a Javanese context.

My comment was only intended to address the motif and perhaps start a different line of thought.

In the Indian massage tables that I've seen, which are intended for use with oil, height is intended to facilitate use whilst standing, not whilst kneeling, and the projection at one end is bowl shaped to accept oil, most tables of this nature that I have seen have a border all round to prevent the oil dripping onto the floor.

Please see #3 above. Note that the flat board usually has a bench somewhere in the house on which it can be put... The bench is additional to the massage board and I think that is because being covered in oil the board is then leaned against a wall or hung on nails to drip dry.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 26th October 2016, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Here are many examples of such massage tables. I am afraid that this little thing does not have the capacity nor features to serve as such a table.
https://www.google.com/search?q=Ayur...w=1377&bih=787

It doesn't have the capacity?..correct...because it has had the end sawn off...probably about 2 feet of it. These items often come with a separate bench ..see above.
Note that two strutts have been attached roughly...and 4 small legs...These are not original so the board was a lot less "tall" and simply rested on a raised bench then the board was either hung on a nail or simply rested against a wall to drain.
This is according to my two Indian chaps ( Kerala) on my team.

A. G. Maisey · 26th October 2016, 08:59 AM

Thank you for your response Ibrahiim.
I'm still very puzzled by the lack of any way in which to accommodate the excess oil. All the tables of this type that I can find images of have some provision for oil built into the projection, either a bowl, or a spout or something. I understand your comments in respect of the oil, but that does not address the problem whilst the board is in use.

Perhaps you might be so kind as to ask your Indian informants how the oil problem was managed with this type of table that does not seem to have any provision for oil.

Given, this little table does have a similar overall appearance to a massage table, but when we look at the details, it just doesn't seem to have the same characteristics as a massage table.

I've actually tried to fit my body into a space that is 650mm (25.5") wide. I am not a big man, and although fairly heavy in the upper body, I'm not over weight. A space 650mm wide is insufficient to accommodate my shoulders and arms. Possibly this board was meant as a massage board/table for a child? I doubt that it could be used for many adults.

Is it barely possible that your informants may have been misled by the overall form and overlooked the missing details?

Since you are fortunate enough to have access to people with local knowledge at hand, could you possibly go just one step further and ask if they can explain the significance of the motif carved into the projection? It is this motif that aroused my interest in the first place, because I believe that this motif holds the key to identity of this artefact, rather than the overall form.

Thank you for your attention.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 26th October 2016, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Thank you for your response Ibrahiim.
I'm still very puzzled by the lack of any way in which to accommodate the excess oil. All the tables of this type that I can find images of have some provision for oil built into the projection, either a bowl, or a spout or something. I understand your comments in respect of the oil, but that does not address the problem whilst the board is in use.

Perhaps you might be so kind as to ask your Indian informants how the oil problem was managed with this type of table that does not seem to have any provision for oil.

Given, this little table does have a similar overall appearance to a massage table, but when we look at the details, it just doesn't seem to have the same characteristics as a massage table.

I've actually tried to fit my body into a space that is 650mm (25.5") wide. I am not a big man, and although fairly heavy in the upper body, I'm not over weight. A space 650mm wide is insufficient to accommodate my shoulders and arms. Possibly this board was meant as a massage board/table for a child? I doubt that it could be used for many adults.

Is it barely possible that your informants may have been misled by the overall form and overlooked the missing details?

Since you are fortunate enough to have access to people with local knowledge at hand, could you possibly go just one step further and ask if they can explain the significance of the motif carved into the projection? It is this motif that aroused my interest in the first place, because I believe that this motif holds the key to identity of this artefact, rather than the overall form.

Thank you for your attention.

Salaams A. G. Maisey and thank you for the questions...
No one has a clue as to the design. It seems to be essentially Hindu Arch style . In respect of oil I assume it can also be kept in a bowl at the side...although since a large part appears to be cut/broken off it is possible the bowl was incorporated in that part? I have a few pictures ...
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

A. G. Maisey · 26th October 2016, 12:49 PM

Thank you for your swift response Ibrahiim.

Yes, your pics show pretty much what I've been seeing:- where that little rounded projection appears on these tables it seems to be invariably a shallow bowl, I have yet to see one that is flat, let alone adorned with carving.

I guess since one end of the panel is missing we'll never know exactly what might have been.

In respect of the projection, yes, I agree stylistically Hindu, but the motif within the projection? That is what interests me. Probably a bit much to expect non-specialist people to be able to comment on it.

Thank you very much for trying.

David · 26th October 2016, 02:50 PM

Yes Ibrahiim, those other boards you posted are indeed massage boards, however the board in the original post has far too many problems to serve as such. Besides the small size and oil drainage issues the pointy raised edges an the sides would be completely impractical for the comfort of the client. Whatever this is it is certainly not intended for massage work.

thinreadline · 27th October 2016, 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Yes Ibrahiim, those other boards you posted are indeed massage boards, however the board in the original post has far too many problems to serve as such. Besides the small size and oil drainage issues the pointy raised edges an the sides would be completely impractical for the comfort of the client. Whatever this is it is certainly not intended for massage work.

This is all very interesting , but whatever it is for the table is not really 'small size' it is 1.5 m long and that is with the missing bit .

David · 27th October 2016, 08:40 AM

How wide is it?

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 27th October 2016, 09:53 AM

Interesting indeed... I say it has side dishes as required thus the fitted bowl is not needed....except we don't know how long the thing is ...perhaps a few more feet?....Indian villagers aren't that big so a total length of 5 feet would work... The width is about a metre.... wide enough for most people I would suggest....The item has added legs and two support strutts underneath. (I once saw one of these with a painting on it of a famous cleric.) It is certainly something from a village household and the massage tray or board is the closest I can get...but as a table top in its second life it is perfect. Tea anyone?

A. G. Maisey · 27th October 2016, 11:46 AM

Width 650mm. = 25.6"

21st October 2016, 01:13 PM	#1
thinreadline Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Wirral Posts: 1,204	TABLE (?) for ID Picked up this interesting table yesterday . I was wondering where it may originate from and whether it is actually a table or whether , as I suspect, it is a door or part of a screen or window shutter that has been adapted. It all looks very old and nothing appears to have been added recently . Dimensions 1.5 m x 650 mm and very low at 200 mm . Attached Images

26th October 2016, 08:59 AM	#20
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,898	Thank you for your response Ibrahiim. I'm still very puzzled by the lack of any way in which to accommodate the excess oil. All the tables of this type that I can find images of have some provision for oil built into the projection, either a bowl, or a spout or something. I understand your comments in respect of the oil, but that does not address the problem whilst the board is in use. Perhaps you might be so kind as to ask your Indian informants how the oil problem was managed with this type of table that does not seem to have any provision for oil. Given, this little table does have a similar overall appearance to a massage table, but when we look at the details, it just doesn't seem to have the same characteristics as a massage table. I've actually tried to fit my body into a space that is 650mm (25.5") wide. I am not a big man, and although fairly heavy in the upper body, I'm not over weight. A space 650mm wide is insufficient to accommodate my shoulders and arms. Possibly this board was meant as a massage board/table for a child? I doubt that it could be used for many adults. Is it barely possible that your informants may have been misled by the overall form and overlooked the missing details? Since you are fortunate enough to have access to people with local knowledge at hand, could you possibly go just one step further and ask if they can explain the significance of the motif carved into the projection? It is this motif that aroused my interest in the first place, because I believe that this motif holds the key to identity of this artefact, rather than the overall form. Thank you for your attention. Last edited by A. G. Maisey; 26th October 2016 at 09:10 AM.

21st October 2016, 06:01 PM	#2
Bob A Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 429	FWIW, it looks like legs were added later. My first impression was Indian, but I really have no idea.

21st October 2016, 08:15 PM	#3
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Indian Style...This is an Ayurveda massage table... You fill it with oil and get a massage on it... see https://www.google.com/search?q=indi...94lW13nDyTM%3A

21st October 2016, 11:13 PM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,898	Possibly so, possibly no. The central motif in this projection displays carving that in Jawa would be interpreted as a representation of a Gunungan, along with a Tree of Life. In Javanese understanding these two forms are analogous. Javanese culture, material and otherwise, is heavily influenced by Indian culture.

22nd October 2016, 02:26 AM	#8
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,898	Not the vaguest idea. I've never seen a low-line table like this in Jawa, but the carving style and general appearance of the thing could easily fit into a Javanese context. My comment was only intended to address the motif and perhaps start a different line of thought. In the Indian massage tables that I've seen, which are intended for use with oil, height is intended to facilitate use whilst standing, not whilst kneeling, and the projection at one end is bowl shaped to accept oil, most tables of this nature that I have seen have a border all round to prevent the oil dripping onto the floor.

22nd October 2016, 10:02 PM	#10
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	The item is incomplete... It has legs added to two struts underneath and crudely cut into the main bench... It is a couple of feet too short as can be seen by the end which has been roughly cut off. I even suspect that it hung from ropes from the roof...or more likely a couple of nails to hang it on a wall. There are interesting holes at the carved end. It is an ex-massage table

23rd October 2016, 08:27 AM	#12
bhushan_lawate Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: India Posts: 77	This is a part of a scrapping equipment (kitchen aid) used for cutting/ scrapping veggies and coconuts etc. http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=...a3bdbfbd40ddo0 something like the one on this link. The wooden section and the iron balde used for cutting/scrapping seems to be the missing part. Thanks, Bhushan

24th October 2016, 07:00 PM	#13
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	I THINK THAT IS INTERESTING... I NEVER SAW A BOARD ATTACHED TO THE CUTTING SPIKE ARRANGEMENT...HOWEVER, I THINK IT IS TOO SMALL AND DOES NOT HAVE THE ARCH AT THE TOP... I STICK WITH MY REFERENCED SITUATION AS A MASSAGE TABLE.

24th October 2016, 10:41 PM	#14
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,898	Ibrahim, you mention that your opinion is backed by a reference. My knowledge of massage tables does not extend to this type, so I've been trying to find a picture of one of these Indian massage tables that does not have a bowl, or other provision for oil incorporated into the projecting part at one end. Could you please oblige by sharing your reference with us? Thank you.

25th October 2016, 04:05 AM	#15
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,294	Speaking strictly as an old New England Yankee; that wood looks very much like very old Eastern White Pine. I grew up in a farmhouse built in 1690 so I've seen more than a bit of it. Of course it's probably impossible that it is E.W.P., but it sure looks like it.

25th October 2016, 06:31 PM	#17
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,130	Here are many examples of such massage tables. I am afraid that this little thing does not have the capacity nor features to serve as such a table. https://www.google.com/search?q=Ayur...w=1377&bih=787

26th October 2016, 12:49 PM	#22
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,898	Thank you for your swift response Ibrahiim. Yes, your pics show pretty much what I've been seeing:- where that little rounded projection appears on these tables it seems to be invariably a shallow bowl, I have yet to see one that is flat, let alone adorned with carving. I guess since one end of the panel is missing we'll never know exactly what might have been. In respect of the projection, yes, I agree stylistically Hindu, but the motif within the projection? That is what interests me. Probably a bit much to expect non-specialist people to be able to comment on it. Thank you very much for trying.

26th October 2016, 02:50 PM	#23
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,130	Yes Ibrahiim, those other boards you posted are indeed massage boards, however the board in the original post has far too many problems to serve as such. Besides the small size and oil drainage issues the pointy raised edges an the sides would be completely impractical for the comfort of the client. Whatever this is it is certainly not intended for massage work.

27th October 2016, 08:40 AM	#25
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,130	How wide is it?

27th October 2016, 09:53 AM	#26
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Interesting indeed... I say it has side dishes as required thus the fitted bowl is not needed....except we don't know how long the thing is ...perhaps a few more feet?....Indian villagers aren't that big so a total length of 5 feet would work... The width is about a metre.... wide enough for most people I would suggest....The item has added legs and two support strutts underneath. (I once saw one of these with a painting on it of a famous cleric.) It is certainly something from a village household and the massage tray or board is the closest I can get...but as a table top in its second life it is perfect. Tea anyone?

27th October 2016, 11:46 AM	#27
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,898	Width 650mm. = 25.6"