Sumatran sword

BluErf · 27th May 2006, 04:22 AM

Anyone specifically knows what this type of sword is called?

http://www.kampungnet.com.sg/modules...view_album.php

nechesh · 27th May 2006, 05:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BluErf

Anyone specifically knows what this type of sword is called?

http://www.kampungnet.com.sg/modules...view_album.php

Sure, i'd call it BEAUTIFUL!

.....though it could be a "sundang"....

Alam Shah · 27th May 2006, 05:54 AM

Hmm...I've handled this piece... A beautiful blade. Congratulation! The hilt, typical of a parang nabur but with a shorthened crossguard on both sides. See link for examples of the hilt crossguard...

http://www.eriksedge.com/INDO126.html
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...y=20085&fkxs=1
http://old.blades.free.fr/swords/parang/par04.htm

I doubt that it's a hulu "iku mie", Acehese 'Amanmeru' or a Batak form as well.
The blade however looks like a mandau blade.

Just my 2 cents opinion.

BluErf · 27th May 2006, 06:32 AM

Thanks for the pictures Shahrial. Yep, I see that the hit form is indeed the same as the parang nabur, but the blade form is definitely not.

I think the blade was forged locally, and not of indo-persian origins. Though the overall profile is like that of a mandau, it lacks the very slight arc we often see in mandaus, and also, I believe mandaus are bevelled on one side of the blade only. This piece is bevelled on both sides, thus allowing for ambidextrous use. Also, the tips of mandaus often have some 'extra' features adorning it, not 'clean' like this blade.

Dajak · 27th May 2006, 07:31 AM

Hi this is an Parang Nabur it is an malay sword that also was in use by the seadajaks.
the guard is missing you can see that they cut it off.
This form is not often but as you can see the straigt one that is in the book off Zonneveld and in my collection

Alam Shah · 27th May 2006, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BluErf

... but the blade form is definitely not...

OK. The blade is not a mandau...anyone else have any idea?

My 2 cents becomes 1 cent worth.

BluErf · 28th May 2006, 04:13 AM

Hey Shahrial, don't worry about it. Our 2 cents do not devalue; they contribute to better understanding.

I agree with the opinion that this piece is a parang nabur with an unusual blade form. I read in Zonneveld's book that not all parang nabur has the D-guard, but in this case, the D-guard and quillon was probably sawed off at some point in time. However, I thought it sort of improved the 'aesthetics' of the blade when it is unsheathed -- the hilt flowed more smoothly into the blade. I do recognize that it does look a bit funny in its sheath, with the wood on the scabbard mouth showing.

The straight blades in Zonneveld's book, and that in Dajak's collection actually has a bit of convexity to the cutting edge. This example of mine is completely straight. Could it be case of this blade being 'salvaged' from another sword-type? Does anyone recognize this blade form in other types of Kalimantan or Malay swords?

One last thing - anyone knows of skilled Kalimantan craftsmen who can do a good job with the D-guard and quillon?

RobT · 28th May 2006, 05:01 AM

Hi Blu Erf,
The blade looks like a Philippine bangkung. I wonder if the Indonesians had a version of this sword also.
Sincerely,
RobT

BluErf · 28th May 2006, 05:21 AM

That sounds plausible, because after all, Kalimantan is very close to the Philippines. Whoa, the more we dig, the more information surfaces.

David - was that why you mentioned this sword could be called a 'sundang'?

Dajak · 28th May 2006, 08:40 AM

The blade form is like an mandau the straight one that I have has even an krowit like the Jimpul

BluErf · 28th May 2006, 09:22 AM

Hi Dajak,

Thanks. However, I thought though the blade may a bit like a mandau, but there are quite a number of klewang form in Sumatra which also looks like this. Hence, when I first looked at it, I thought it was N. Sumatran. The hilt convinced me otherwise.

I was informed of a closed ebay auction (by a fellow forumnite - Derreck) for a parang nabur. Hope Derreck does not mind me attaching the picture for discussion purpose.

I noticed that the D-guard in the picture is attached to a white brass nail that seemed to be hammered into the pommel. My parang nabur's hilt had no traces of such a nail insertion. Is it that not all D-guards for parang nabur ends up being nailed to the pommel?

Dajak · 28th May 2006, 03:13 PM

NO not al see pic there are much types but to me it looks like the handle is not the original it maybe a replace handle

Alam Shah · 28th May 2006, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dajak

... but to me it looks like the handle is not the original it maybe a replace handle

Hmmm...maybe that explained why there's no hole for the horn hilt's D-shaped guard. Probably the guard had been cut before the hilt replacement. Hence, no reason to put a hole there...(just speculating)

Quote:

Originally Posted by BluErf

Hey Shahrial, don't worry about it. Our 2 cents do not devalue; they contribute to better understanding.

No sweat... 2 cents investment is maturing...

I do agree that the blade might be salvaged from another sword type.

BluErf · 28th May 2006, 05:52 PM

I have a question - How do we tell that the hilt is not original? If it was a replacement, why not replace with the D-guard as well?

The overall feel is that the white brass fittings on the scabbard is matching with the white brass on the hilt. The sheath was made for the blade and fits perfectly.

Dajak · 28th May 2006, 07:08 PM

wooden handle easy to replace the metal part not because it is normally one piece diffucult to get it together

the wooden handle as I can see from the pic no sign off use

As you can see when it is in the scabbard there is a piece missing cutting off is the easy way

Look at these handle s all have sign off use

rasdan · 28th May 2006, 07:27 PM

Hi all,

I think the D guard was probably connected with the nail at the end of the hilt. Btw, is it a nail? I think the "nail" is actually the end of the blade tang that is screwed to make sure the hilt dont slip off. If the hilt ist new, maybe the last owner only made a hilt for it and suit the old brass part for it. Probably..

BluErf · 29th May 2006, 06:54 PM

Thank you all for sharing information and opinion on this unusual P. Nabur.

I guess it is so atypical that it raises many questions that we can only speculate about, and I think that adds to the mystery and fun. The lost D-guard (or was there ever a D-guard when this piece was put together? Did a previous owner saw off the guard to suit his silat style? Or maybe the owner simply hated the D-guard and quillon?

) is part of the history of this piece.

At the end of all these, I've grown to appreciate the uniqueness of this piece even more. Add to that the beautiful blade, horn hilt and complete scabbard, this piece is going to stay with me for a long time.

I am going to keep it as it is because I think it will make a very interesting conversation piece.

Dajak · 29th May 2006, 08:24 PM

It is not an unusual one just modificated

27th May 2006, 04:22 AM	#1
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Sumatran sword -> Identified to be an unusual parang nabur Anyone specifically knows what this type of sword is called? http://www.kampungnet.com.sg/modules...view_album.php Attached Images Last edited by BluErf; 28th May 2006 at 04:06 AM. Reason: New information from forumnites

27th May 2006, 05:54 AM	#3
Alam Shah Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,248	Hmm...I've handled this piece... A beautiful blade. Congratulation! The hilt, typical of a parang nabur but with a shorthened crossguard on both sides. See link for examples of the hilt crossguard... http://www.eriksedge.com/INDO126.html http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...y=20085&fkxs=1 http://old.blades.free.fr/swords/parang/par04.htm I doubt that it's a hulu "iku mie", Acehese 'Amanmeru' or a Batak form as well. The blade however looks like a mandau blade. Just my 2 cents opinion. Last edited by Alam Shah; 27th May 2006 at 06:05 AM. Reason: added links...

27th May 2006, 07:31 AM	#5
Dajak Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 951	Hi this is an Parang Nabur it is an malay sword that also was in use by the seadajaks. the guard is missing you can see that they cut it off. This form is not often but as you can see the straigt one that is in the book off Zonneveld and in my collection Attached Images

28th May 2006, 05:01 AM	#8
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 489	Bangkung? Hi Blu Erf, The blade looks like a Philippine bangkung. I wonder if the Indonesians had a version of this sword also. Sincerely, RobT

28th May 2006, 09:22 AM	#11
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Hi Dajak, Thanks. However, I thought though the blade may a bit like a mandau, but there are quite a number of klewang form in Sumatra which also looks like this. Hence, when I first looked at it, I thought it was N. Sumatran. The hilt convinced me otherwise. I was informed of a closed ebay auction (by a fellow forumnite - Derreck) for a parang nabur. Hope Derreck does not mind me attaching the picture for discussion purpose. I noticed that the D-guard in the picture is attached to a white brass nail that seemed to be hammered into the pommel. My parang nabur's hilt had no traces of such a nail insertion. Is it that not all D-guards for parang nabur ends up being nailed to the pommel? Attached Images

27th May 2006, 06:32 AM	#4
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Thanks for the pictures Shahrial. Yep, I see that the hit form is indeed the same as the parang nabur, but the blade form is definitely not. I think the blade was forged locally, and not of indo-persian origins. Though the overall profile is like that of a mandau, it lacks the very slight arc we often see in mandaus, and also, I believe mandaus are bevelled on one side of the blade only. This piece is bevelled on both sides, thus allowing for ambidextrous use. Also, the tips of mandaus often have some 'extra' features adorning it, not 'clean' like this blade.

28th May 2006, 04:13 AM	#7
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Hey Shahrial, don't worry about it. Our 2 cents do not devalue; they contribute to better understanding. I agree with the opinion that this piece is a parang nabur with an unusual blade form. I read in Zonneveld's book that not all parang nabur has the D-guard, but in this case, the D-guard and quillon was probably sawed off at some point in time. However, I thought it sort of improved the 'aesthetics' of the blade when it is unsheathed -- the hilt flowed more smoothly into the blade. I do recognize that it does look a bit funny in its sheath, with the wood on the scabbard mouth showing. The straight blades in Zonneveld's book, and that in Dajak's collection actually has a bit of convexity to the cutting edge. This example of mine is completely straight. Could it be case of this blade being 'salvaged' from another sword-type? Does anyone recognize this blade form in other types of Kalimantan or Malay swords? One last thing - anyone knows of skilled Kalimantan craftsmen who can do a good job with the D-guard and quillon?

28th May 2006, 05:21 AM	#9
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	That sounds plausible, because after all, Kalimantan is very close to the Philippines. Whoa, the more we dig, the more information surfaces. David - was that why you mentioned this sword could be called a 'sundang'?

28th May 2006, 08:40 AM	#10
Dajak Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 951	The blade form is like an mandau the straight one that I have has even an krowit like the Jimpul

28th May 2006, 03:13 PM	#12
Dajak Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 951	NO not al see pic there are much types but to me it looks like the handle is not the original it maybe a replace handle Attached Images

28th May 2006, 05:52 PM	#14
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	I have a question - How do we tell that the hilt is not original? If it was a replacement, why not replace with the D-guard as well? The overall feel is that the white brass fittings on the scabbard is matching with the white brass on the hilt. The sheath was made for the blade and fits perfectly.

28th May 2006, 07:08 PM	#15
Dajak Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 951	wooden handle easy to replace the metal part not because it is normally one piece diffucult to get it together the wooden handle as I can see from the pic no sign off use As you can see when it is in the scabbard there is a piece missing cutting off is the easy way Look at these handle s all have sign off use Attached Images

28th May 2006, 07:27 PM	#16
rasdan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kuala Lumpur Posts: 368	Hi all, I think the D guard was probably connected with the nail at the end of the hilt. Btw, is it a nail? I think the "nail" is actually the end of the blade tang that is screwed to make sure the hilt dont slip off. If the hilt ist new, maybe the last owner only made a hilt for it and suit the old brass part for it. Probably..

29th May 2006, 06:54 PM	#17
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Thank you all for sharing information and opinion on this unusual P. Nabur. I guess it is so atypical that it raises many questions that we can only speculate about, and I think that adds to the mystery and fun. The lost D-guard (or was there ever a D-guard when this piece was put together? Did a previous owner saw off the guard to suit his silat style? Or maybe the owner simply hated the D-guard and quillon? ) is part of the history of this piece. At the end of all these, I've grown to appreciate the uniqueness of this piece even more. Add to that the beautiful blade, horn hilt and complete scabbard, this piece is going to stay with me for a long time. I am going to keep it as it is because I think it will make a very interesting conversation piece.

29th May 2006, 08:24 PM	#18
Dajak Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 951	It is not an unusual one just modificated