Riffian Edged Weapons

MikeB · 7th March 2006, 06:16 PM

Greetings
I am a new boy, seeking help. I'm researching an article on the Riffian resistance to the Spanish and French in Morocco c1900-1950. I have plenty of information on the Colonialists, but less on the Riffians. Searching this forum I've found threads on some Moroccan daggers, which have been most useful. What I am after is advice on what the Riffian weapons would have been and would have looked like, please.

All help will be acknowledged in the article, and this DG will get a plug too.

Many thanks

Mike Blake

Rick · 7th March 2006, 10:13 PM

Hi Mike ,
This is a Moroccan dagger called a shula . I would like to hear confirmation from another of our members before stating that this is definitely Berber though.

Also pictured is a Berber sword with an unusual tip configuration .

More information and photos can be found in : ISLAMIC WEAPONS Maghrib to Moghul by Anthony C, Tirri isbn # 0-9747192-7-7

MikeB · 8th March 2006, 12:39 PM

Hi Rick
That was quick! Many thanks - shula is a new one to me. It certainly fits the descriptions of the Riffis fighting with 'straight daggers'. Could you explain whey you mean about the other having an unusual tip, please?
Thanks
Mike

Rick · 8th March 2006, 03:51 PM

The majority of Berber swords that I have seen have a tip that resembles somewhat the bow of a ship . Perhaps a search of the forum will reveal one or perhaps a Google image search will turn one up . I know that they are pictured in Tirri's book .

Good luck in your search .

Rick

Ahhh , found one !

http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=91

I would strongly suggest that you peruse the sold items gallery here to see a plethora of moroccan weapons .

http://www.oriental-arms.com

MikeB · 8th March 2006, 05:24 PM

Rick
Thanks for the explanation. I have been scouring the archive and found lots of fascinating stuff. I'm planning a trip to the Royal Armouries in Leeds next week to see what they have.
Regards
Mike

ham · 8th March 2006, 07:20 PM

That particular tip is referred to as "barbed."

Mike, have you run across much on Al-Raisuli? Interesting character who fits into your period nicely.

Ham

MikeB · 8th March 2006, 08:00 PM

Ham
Many thanks.

At the risk of going OT - Indeed, he's a bit of a character alright, in many ways a shame he came to such a sad end, though I don't suppose the people he kidnapped would think so fondly of him. The Spanish paid him a large 'pension' to keep him out of their hair for a while. To be honest though I find Abd ek Krim more interesting. He comes across as less of a rogue but more of a charismatic leader, more in the mold of Abd el Kadr 100 years before in Algeria against the French [another of my interests]

Jim McDougall · 10th March 2006, 03:45 AM

These Berber sabres which have, as noted, a barbed protrusion at the top of the blade point, are an intriguing form which has apparantly eluded inclusion in most earlier catalogs of ethnographic weapons.
It seems that these are likely to be from Spanish Morocco (as noted, included in Mr. Tirri's fine book) and from examples I have handled most have the blades profiled to include this barb. I have always been curious about what purpose or meaning might be represented by this profiled barbed point.
Many of the examples are from cut down British M1796 light cavalry sabres, and the hatchet point ground away and profiled with the barb at the top of the point.
The highly stylized guardless hilt seems to reflect influence possibly from the well known flyssa, the long straight bladed, needle pointed sword of the Kabyles, another Berber tribal group to the east in Algeria. While these hilts appear zoomorphic, what creature is supposedly represented cannot be certain.

Another type of dagger carried in Morocco was one often with a very sharp point, straight and often with a H shaped (cf. baselard) hilt, and termed a s'boula. These are often attributed to Zanzibar (as shown in Burton, p.166) however in my opinion the eminent collector and writer on ethnographic weapons Charles Buttin (1933, Rumilly, France) correctly identifies these as Moroccan, and notes the Burton error (research from my paper on these swords from March,2003, "The Zanzibar Swords: Conflict or Diversity").

Above all we cannot forget the classic Moroccan 'nimcha' sabres, which certainly were used into regions being discussed ,as well as clearly along the Maghreb littoral.

Best regards,
Jim

MikeB · 10th March 2006, 04:29 PM

Jim

Many thanks for this.

As a complete tyro I'm on a steep learning curve here, so please bear with me. I will attempt to pull together what I think I have learnt so far, and then run it past the DG for correction please.

Mike

7th March 2006, 06:16 PM	#1
MikeB Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Deepest Derbyshire Posts: 5	Riffian Edged Weapons Greetings I am a new boy, seeking help. I'm researching an article on the Riffian resistance to the Spanish and French in Morocco c1900-1950. I have plenty of information on the Colonialists, but less on the Riffians. Searching this forum I've found threads on some Moroccan daggers, which have been most useful. What I am after is advice on what the Riffian weapons would have been and would have looked like, please. All help will be acknowledged in the article, and this DG will get a plug too. Many thanks Mike Blake

7th March 2006, 10:13 PM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Hi Mike , This is a Moroccan dagger called a shula . I would like to hear confirmation from another of our members before stating that this is definitely Berber though. Also pictured is a Berber sword with an unusual tip configuration . More information and photos can be found in : ISLAMIC WEAPONS Maghrib to Moghul by Anthony C, Tirri isbn # 0-9747192-7-7 Attached Images

8th March 2006, 03:51 PM	#4
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	The majority of Berber swords that I have seen have a tip that resembles somewhat the bow of a ship . Perhaps a search of the forum will reveal one or perhaps a Google image search will turn one up . I know that they are pictured in Tirri's book . Good luck in your search . Rick Ahhh , found one ! http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=91 I would strongly suggest that you peruse the sold items gallery here to see a plethora of moroccan weapons . http://www.oriental-arms.com Last edited by Rick; 8th March 2006 at 04:09 PM.

8th March 2006, 12:39 PM	#3
MikeB Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Deepest Derbyshire Posts: 5	Hi Rick That was quick! Many thanks - shula is a new one to me. It certainly fits the descriptions of the Riffis fighting with 'straight daggers'. Could you explain whey you mean about the other having an unusual tip, please? Thanks Mike

8th March 2006, 05:24 PM	#5
MikeB Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Deepest Derbyshire Posts: 5	Rick Thanks for the explanation. I have been scouring the archive and found lots of fascinating stuff. I'm planning a trip to the Royal Armouries in Leeds next week to see what they have. Regards Mike

8th March 2006, 07:20 PM	#6
ham Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 190	That particular tip is referred to as "barbed." Mike, have you run across much on Al-Raisuli? Interesting character who fits into your period nicely. Ham

8th March 2006, 08:00 PM	#7
MikeB Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Deepest Derbyshire Posts: 5	Ham Many thanks. At the risk of going OT - Indeed, he's a bit of a character alright, in many ways a shame he came to such a sad end, though I don't suppose the people he kidnapped would think so fondly of him. The Spanish paid him a large 'pension' to keep him out of their hair for a while. To be honest though I find Abd ek Krim more interesting. He comes across as less of a rogue but more of a charismatic leader, more in the mold of Abd el Kadr 100 years before in Algeria against the French [another of my interests]

10th March 2006, 03:45 AM	#8
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,944	These Berber sabres which have, as noted, a barbed protrusion at the top of the blade point, are an intriguing form which has apparantly eluded inclusion in most earlier catalogs of ethnographic weapons. It seems that these are likely to be from Spanish Morocco (as noted, included in Mr. Tirri's fine book) and from examples I have handled most have the blades profiled to include this barb. I have always been curious about what purpose or meaning might be represented by this profiled barbed point. Many of the examples are from cut down British M1796 light cavalry sabres, and the hatchet point ground away and profiled with the barb at the top of the point. The highly stylized guardless hilt seems to reflect influence possibly from the well known flyssa, the long straight bladed, needle pointed sword of the Kabyles, another Berber tribal group to the east in Algeria. While these hilts appear zoomorphic, what creature is supposedly represented cannot be certain. Another type of dagger carried in Morocco was one often with a very sharp point, straight and often with a H shaped (cf. baselard) hilt, and termed a s'boula. These are often attributed to Zanzibar (as shown in Burton, p.166) however in my opinion the eminent collector and writer on ethnographic weapons Charles Buttin (1933, Rumilly, France) correctly identifies these as Moroccan, and notes the Burton error (research from my paper on these swords from March,2003, "The Zanzibar Swords: Conflict or Diversity"). Above all we cannot forget the classic Moroccan 'nimcha' sabres, which certainly were used into regions being discussed ,as well as clearly along the Maghreb littoral. Best regards, Jim

10th March 2006, 04:29 PM	#9
MikeB Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Deepest Derbyshire Posts: 5	Jim Many thanks for this. As a complete tyro I'm on a steep learning curve here, so please bear with me. I will attempt to pull together what I think I have learnt so far, and then run it past the DG for correction please. Mike