Wilkinson Tulwar

[archer]

Just in a Wilkinson bladed Tulwar. A quick search thru old threads came up with http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...lkinson+tulwar explaining this was likely from the Manton 1927 Catalog or very similar. The unsharpened blade is 23 inches long and
hand room is small around three inches. Hardly any handling damage
seen knuckle guard has a few cuts and a knick toward the front of the blade.
i'm wondering how long after 1927 were they being made or was Mantons catalog like Bannermans of the same era?

[CharlesS]

Archer,

Interesting sword and lovely blade. The pommel strikes me as somehow having been altered. What's your take from what you can see there?

[archer]

Charles,
Perhaps a crushed presentation Hilt. While somewhat resembling the knuckle bowed hilt in the Manton catalog which appears to be symmetrical. this one is not at all. The odd pommel disk is both tear drop shaped and mounted askew. I haven't a clue if this was a personal modification, or who may have made the hilt and if others exist. The disk may have been a crude repair, odd since the blade has not been sharpened. My hope is that Berkley, McCormic, Jeff and others will fill in the blanks. There seems to be
Manton of Calcutta catalogs out their with photos.

[spiral]

Am I missing something?

Queen Elizabeth the 2nd came to reign in 1953 & the style of marking looks later than that.

[archer]

Hi Spiral,

You made a great point. Thus far my only reference has been the post I cited.
This weapons age is a total mystery to Me. Putting it in at least the50s may
well mean it is a presentation of some sort and explain why the blade was never sharpened. Thank you, Steve P.S. The same label is etched on both sides of the blade.

[Norman McCormick]

Hi Archer,
Presentation piece could be an explanation although the hilt doesn't look to me to be of presentation quality, it would appear maybe to have been rehilted or perhaps just not very well repaired at some point in its life. The only other explanation I can think of would be a special order run for some individual or group.
My Regards,
Norman.

P.S. Indian hilts are not necessarily mounted 'in line' with the blade therefore giving the effect of hilt and blade out of 'kilter'.

[archer]

So, what are we looking at here? How late would this blade as etched have been made? That would give us a time frame. My comments about presentation were based on the Manton catalogs description. I have to agree it was likely hilted in India due the confined hand area. The comment on the pommel "disk" has mainly to do with it's odd shape. So is it just a very recent knock off?

[kahnjar1]

I would suggest that Manton & Co have nothing to do with this sword whatsoever. They have been out of business for too long, and anyway were quality GUN makers. They may have sold swords, but as far as I am aware did not make them.
As for this being a presentation sword TOTALY made by Wilkinson, I would rather doubt it. They would not have hilted a quality blade with a hilt like this IMHO.
I believe you have something knobbled together.....

[Norman McCormick]

Originally Posted by archer

So, what are we looking at here? How late would this blade as etched have been made? That would give us a time frame. My comments about presentation were based on the Manton catalogs description. I have to agree it was likely hilted in India due the confined hand area. The comment on the pommel "disk" has mainly to do with it's odd shape. So is it just a very recent knock off?

Queen Elizabeth ascended the throne in 1952 and Wilkinson closed its sword business in 2005.

[Jim McDougall]

Perfectly deduced guys!!! In reading this it is truly a pleasure to see this kind of analysis and discussion!!! Excellent points on Manton etc.
True forensics, thanks so much.

[thinreadline]

The Manton name was bought and used by a firm in Birmingham sometime in the late 1980s . They produced a whole range of edged weapons with spurious markings , I believe the weapons themselves were mostly manufactured in India .

[spiral]

double post...

[spiral]

Originally Posted by thinreadline

The Manton name was bought and used by a firm in Birmingham sometime in the late 1980s . They produced a whole range of edged weapons with spurious markings , I believe the weapons themselves were mostly manufactured in India .

In that last era of the firm, I believe that's true of many Wilkinson sword blades as well.

When the firm shut down thousands blades, both completed, faulty, pattern cubboard & unfinished hit the market at very cheap prices, both officially by Wilkinsons & unofficially by all the blokes getting made redundant who worked there who filled there car boots with them. {Which due to circumstance's the management ignored.}

I suspect this is an unfinished blade from there store rooms re hilted for re sale by someone not even competent enough to put an apparently original sharp edge on it.

[asomotif]

Is this a tulwar blade ?

Could it be a Sappeurs blade ?

Best regards,
Willem

[archer]

This is one of those times when a little bit of knowledge can be painful.
thanks to all hopefully lesson learned we'll see.
steve

[kahnjar1]

Originally Posted by archer

This is one of those times when a little bit of knowledge can be painful.
thanks to all hopefully lesson learned we'll see.
steve

Hi Steve,
An old collector friend of mine, now sadly passed on, once said to me that "if it does not look right, then it probably isn't".
A very useful statement to remember, but then there are times, and I guess we have all had them, that we make mistakes, but hopefully we learn from them................
Stu

[spiral]

Originally Posted by archer

This is one of those times when a little bit of knowledge can be painful.
thanks to all hopefully lesson learned we'll see.
steve

Thank you, Its nice when the messenger doesn't get shot...

[archer]

Spiral,
Thanks again for the heads up it's on it's way back now and I'm not sure at all that I would have picked up on it. Steve

[spiral]

signed for delivery I trust?