Newly acquired yataghan for comment.

drac2k · 28th December 2014, 10:03 PM

I just acquired this yataghan and it is my first all metal handled one ; have them with bone handles, "glorified bone,"wood and horn, but not solid metal.The drag is a little different, indicative of some area that I've seen before, but I can not seem to remember.

drac2k · 30th December 2014, 03:00 PM

Well, since no one has commented on my sword, let me now do so.I was just reading a post on this blog "titled favorites," sublisted "Black Sea Yataghans," and I noticed that the drag on those scabbards looked like the drag on mine(very distinctive), so could one infer, mine is from the same area ?

TVV · 30th December 2014, 06:00 PM

The reason that nobody has commented is probably because yataghans are very difficult to attribute as little has been written on the subject - Elgood has a nice chapter in "The Arms of Greece and Her Balkan neighbors" book, but it is far from a comprehensive guide on all the regional hilt varieties. Astvatsaturian has a typology in her Turkish Arms book, but it is somewhat questionable and debatable, as the author herself admits. The other books on the subject are catalogues - a few from Croatia, which simply list the yataghans in the collection of a Zagreb museum, and one from the Askeri museum in Istanbul, where everything is described simply as "Osmanli" in the notorious Turkish scholastic tradition when it comes to weapons that were found in areas once part of the Ottoman Empire.

To make matters more complicated, yataghans traveled throughout the Empire over the vast trade routes and fittings were replaced regularly according to the taste and means of local owners.

All metal hilts are usually associated with the Western Balkans, and the one on yours may have been made in Epirus. The scabbard is a separate addition and I cannot guess from where. Blades were produced in many centers and traded as blanks - unless the inscription contains the name and home town of the bladesmith, there really is no way of determining where the blade was forged with any degree of certainty.

Regards,
Teodor

drac2k · 30th December 2014, 09:31 PM

Thanks, Teodor, your post was very informative, especially the part about metal handles being from the Western Balkans. I thought, since the scabbard was very distinctive, it might lend a clue, especially since I saw some yataghans with such sheaths attributed to the Black Sea Area.
I realize that with posting, it is "hit or miss ;" I was trying to interject a little(a very little), humor .
Regards,
David

estcrh · 31st December 2014, 06:48 AM

I can not add much other then what I have observed on other yatagans. First, the scabbard is not your typical Ottoman scabbard so unless it is identifiable as being from a specific region or culture it will not help much. Second, the workmanship on this yatagan is a bit crude, it appears to have been rehilted at some point or repaired. This type with a metal hilt is not as common as others, here is another more ornate example.

Gavin Nugent · 31st December 2014, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TVV

The reason that nobody has commented is probably because...

...of the time of the year too

drac2k · 31st December 2014, 02:23 PM

Estcrh, beautiful yataghan; is it yours ? I think you are absolutely right about it having been rehilted, especially since it is missing the extensive metal foil work at the hilt which usually accompanies these swords.I did notice some other similarities with your sword; first the heavy throat on the scabbard with a similar stylized design and could your sword also have been rehilted, since it appears that some of the inscriptions appear to have been covered up by the metal foil at the hilt ?

Battara · 1st January 2015, 04:44 AM

I agree - most of these type of yats with these type of pommel "ears" usually come from the Balkans.

Nice piece. Have you tested the metal to see if it is low silver or white metal?

drac2k · 1st January 2015, 05:23 AM

The handle is quite heavy, I originally thought it could be brass with a silver wash, however I didn't see any brass leaching out from under the silver color, so it has yet to be determined ; is there any other way to test for silver other than acid ?

estcrh · 2nd January 2015, 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drac2k

Estcrh, beautiful yataghan; is it yours ? I think you are absolutely right about it having been rehilted, especially since it is missing the extensive metal foil work at the hilt which usually accompanies these swords.I did notice some other similarities with your sword; first the heavy throat on the scabbard with a similar stylized design and could your sword also have been rehilted, since it appears that some of the inscriptions appear to have been covered up by the metal foil at the hilt ?

Yes it is mine and it appears to have been rehilted unless inscriptions were routinely covered over. I have a lot of yatagan photos but it was the only one I could find with a similar hilt and scabbard. If you compare the hilts they have the same basic shape, the scabbards both have a decorated throat and no chape.

28th December 2014, 10:03 PM	#1
drac2k Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,232	Newly acquired yataghan for comment. I just acquired this yataghan and it is my first all metal handled one ; have them with bone handles, "glorified bone,"wood and horn, but not solid metal.The drag is a little different, indicative of some area that I've seen before, but I can not seem to remember. Attached Images

31st December 2014, 06:48 AM	#5
estcrh Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: USA Posts: 1,497	I can not add much other then what I have observed on other yatagans. First, the scabbard is not your typical Ottoman scabbard so unless it is identifiable as being from a specific region or culture it will not help much. Second, the workmanship on this yatagan is a bit crude, it appears to have been rehilted at some point or repaired. This type with a metal hilt is not as common as others, here is another more ornate example. Attached Images

30th December 2014, 03:00 PM	#2
drac2k Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,232	Well, since no one has commented on my sword, let me now do so.I was just reading a post on this blog "titled favorites," sublisted "Black Sea Yataghans," and I noticed that the drag on those scabbards looked like the drag on mine(very distinctive), so could one infer, mine is from the same area ?

30th December 2014, 06:00 PM	#3
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,625	The reason that nobody has commented is probably because yataghans are very difficult to attribute as little has been written on the subject - Elgood has a nice chapter in "The Arms of Greece and Her Balkan neighbors" book, but it is far from a comprehensive guide on all the regional hilt varieties. Astvatsaturian has a typology in her Turkish Arms book, but it is somewhat questionable and debatable, as the author herself admits. The other books on the subject are catalogues - a few from Croatia, which simply list the yataghans in the collection of a Zagreb museum, and one from the Askeri museum in Istanbul, where everything is described simply as "Osmanli" in the notorious Turkish scholastic tradition when it comes to weapons that were found in areas once part of the Ottoman Empire. To make matters more complicated, yataghans traveled throughout the Empire over the vast trade routes and fittings were replaced regularly according to the taste and means of local owners. All metal hilts are usually associated with the Western Balkans, and the one on yours may have been made in Epirus. The scabbard is a separate addition and I cannot guess from where. Blades were produced in many centers and traded as blanks - unless the inscription contains the name and home town of the bladesmith, there really is no way of determining where the blade was forged with any degree of certainty. Regards, Teodor

30th December 2014, 09:31 PM	#4
drac2k Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,232	Thanks, Teodor, your post was very informative, especially the part about metal handles being from the Western Balkans. I thought, since the scabbard was very distinctive, it might lend a clue, especially since I saw some yataghans with such sheaths attributed to the Black Sea Area. I realize that with posting, it is "hit or miss ;" I was trying to interject a little(a very little), humor . Regards, David

31st December 2014, 02:23 PM	#7
drac2k Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,232	Estcrh, beautiful yataghan; is it yours ? I think you are absolutely right about it having been rehilted, especially since it is missing the extensive metal foil work at the hilt which usually accompanies these swords.I did notice some other similarities with your sword; first the heavy throat on the scabbard with a similar stylized design and could your sword also have been rehilted, since it appears that some of the inscriptions appear to have been covered up by the metal foil at the hilt ?

1st January 2015, 04:44 AM	#8
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,225	I agree - most of these type of yats with these type of pommel "ears" usually come from the Balkans. Nice piece. Have you tested the metal to see if it is low silver or white metal?

1st January 2015, 05:23 AM	#9
drac2k Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,232	The handle is quite heavy, I originally thought it could be brass with a silver wash, however I didn't see any brass leaching out from under the silver color, so it has yet to be determined ; is there any other way to test for silver other than acid ?