Can you ID this sword

terry1956 · 25th October 2010, 01:36 PM

Hi, can anyone help me out here. I have this sword, and its a little odd.At first it looks like a 1796 light cavalry pattern sword. Put on closer inspection it looks to small, the blade is 34 inches long and a narrow inch and a bit wide. the clip hand guard is made of steel which is narrower when looking at it from the edge then my other swords of this type. its missing its leather hand chip and wire. there are no makings on the blade to be seen. the scabbard as been painted black and stamped above the upper scabbard ring is 14 LD.
The scabbard fits the sword and overall it all looks lighter then it should. any ideas, views, michael

David · 25th October 2010, 02:34 PM

Aa alway, photographs would be helpful...

terry1956 · 25th October 2010, 02:44 PM

here is a pic. michael

kronckew · 25th October 2010, 03:47 PM

the british 14th dragoons became the 14th light dragoons in 1776. (14 LD)

metal was frequently painted black (japanned) to increase rust protection.

as noted pictures would help.

wiki link

terry1956 · 25th October 2010, 04:01 PM

picture of the handle and guard. there are no markings on the blade at all.
michael

terry1956 · 25th October 2010, 04:46 PM

David · 25th October 2010, 05:22 PM

Would still like to see some photos of yours, but here are some swords attributed to the 14th Light Dragoons.

terry1956 · 25th October 2010, 05:59 PM

hi, for some reason my picture is not getting posted. the sword however is a lot lighter then the above pictures weapons. and the markings are not the same. I am thinking that the sword i have in question must be wrong and that the 14th LD markings are not correct.
michael

David · 25th October 2010, 10:43 PM

Terry, you are still in moderated status so i take a Mod to pass your images on to the thread. I took care of it. A shot of the markings on the sheath might be helpful.

kronckew · 26th October 2010, 08:15 AM

on a 1796 the grip should be ribbed, tho the leather cover seems loose, is the wood underneath ribbed or cord wrapped to provide ribbing? the portion of the back strap that is riveted to the grip wood (the ears) meets the rest in a rather rounded fashion, compared with the above 3 documented originals, where the same bit has fairly squared corners at the transition.

there were some variances in privately made officers models, which could have been a bit lighter.

as noted pics of the whole sword, blade, & scabbard & the markings would help.even the drag at the end of the scabbard can be diagnostic.

p.s. - the rounded ear junctions look more german than british, see This Linky which is in german, they hilight similar ear/backstrap and other differences between the german 1811 and later ones... (1831 left, 1811 right)

there are notes i found on later model german sabres of similar design to the 1796 UK one being passed off as 1796's. the german 1811 'blucher' sabre which mimicked the 1796 had later descendants. there is a 'lighter' argentinian variant on the site i linked to. could be the scabbard is a mis-match, tho it seems to fit, or it could have been later stamped in an effort to deceive.

on a historic note, the 14th LD did not participate in the waterloo campaign, as they had been dispatched to america to thrash the unruly colonists at new orleans on jan 8th 1815. their results were not quite what they'd expected. i imagine it took them a while to get over it.

25th October 2010, 01:36 PM	#1
terry1956 Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: yeovil, somerset, uk Posts: 75	Can you ID this sword Hi, can anyone help me out here. I have this sword, and its a little odd.At first it looks like a 1796 light cavalry pattern sword. Put on closer inspection it looks to small, the blade is 34 inches long and a narrow inch and a bit wide. the clip hand guard is made of steel which is narrower when looking at it from the edge then my other swords of this type. its missing its leather hand chip and wire. there are no makings on the blade to be seen. the scabbard as been painted black and stamped above the upper scabbard ring is 14 LD. The scabbard fits the sword and overall it all looks lighter then it should. any ideas, views, michael

25th October 2010, 02:44 PM	#3
terry1956 Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: yeovil, somerset, uk Posts: 75	forgot to add, sorry here is a pic. michael

25th October 2010, 03:47 PM	#4
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,186	the british 14th dragoons became the 14th light dragoons in 1776. (14 LD) metal was frequently painted black (japanned) to increase rust protection. as noted pictures would help. wiki link Last edited by kronckew; 25th October 2010 at 03:57 PM.

25th October 2010, 04:01 PM	#5
terry1956 Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: yeovil, somerset, uk Posts: 75	hope the picture comes out picture of the handle and guard. there are no markings on the blade at all. michael

25th October 2010, 04:46 PM	#6
terry1956 Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: yeovil, somerset, uk Posts: 75	3rd go at adding picture

25th October 2010, 02:34 PM	#2
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,127	Aa alway, photographs would be helpful...

25th October 2010, 05:22 PM	#7
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,127	Would still like to see some photos of yours, but here are some swords attributed to the 14th Light Dragoons. Attached Images

25th October 2010, 05:59 PM	#8
terry1956 Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: yeovil, somerset, uk Posts: 75	in answer hi, for some reason my picture is not getting posted. the sword however is a lot lighter then the above pictures weapons. and the markings are not the same. I am thinking that the sword i have in question must be wrong and that the 14th LD markings are not correct. michael

25th October 2010, 10:43 PM	#9
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,127	Terry, you are still in moderated status so i take a Mod to pass your images on to the thread. I took care of it. A shot of the markings on the sheath might be helpful.

26th October 2010, 08:15 AM	#10
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,186	on a 1796 the grip should be ribbed, tho the leather cover seems loose, is the wood underneath ribbed or cord wrapped to provide ribbing? the portion of the back strap that is riveted to the grip wood (the ears) meets the rest in a rather rounded fashion, compared with the above 3 documented originals, where the same bit has fairly squared corners at the transition. there were some variances in privately made officers models, which could have been a bit lighter. as noted pics of the whole sword, blade, & scabbard & the markings would help.even the drag at the end of the scabbard can be diagnostic. p.s. - the rounded ear junctions look more german than british, see This Linky which is in german, they hilight similar ear/backstrap and other differences between the german 1811 and later ones... (1831 left, 1811 right) there are notes i found on later model german sabres of similar design to the 1796 UK one being passed off as 1796's. the german 1811 'blucher' sabre which mimicked the 1796 had later descendants. there is a 'lighter' argentinian variant on the site i linked to. could be the scabbard is a mis-match, tho it seems to fit, or it could have been later stamped in an effort to deceive. on a historic note, the 14th LD did not participate in the waterloo campaign, as they had been dispatched to america to thrash the unruly colonists at new orleans on jan 8th 1815. their results were not quite what they'd expected. i imagine it took them a while to get over it. Last edited by kronckew; 26th October 2010 at 10:34 AM.