Sino-vietnamese fighting knife

Yvain · 4th October 2024, 03:35 PM

Hi all!

Snatched this sino-vietnamese fighting knife for 10€ at the flea market this weekend! I'm pretty happy it, since I didn't have one of those in my collection yet, and especially for that price!

It's a long, heavy knife, with a very thick spine and slightly concave sides. Polish is pretty rough, don't know if it was always that way though. The grip is made of bone, with brass pommel and guard.

I read that those were used by the black flag army, which would make sense since I found it in France (the black flag army fought the French during the sino-french war 1884-1885).

Anyway, would love to hear your thoughts about it! 🙂

David R · 4th October 2024, 11:47 PM

Nice one!

RobT · 5th October 2024, 03:56 AM

Hi All,

I Have seen pictures of these in old US publications that identified them as one of the knives used by Chinese tongs. I had always thought of them as purely Chinese. It will be interesting to hear what more knowledgeable forum members have to say.

Sincerely,
RobT

Yvain · 5th October 2024, 10:23 AM

Hi Rob,

From what I've read, this type of knife originated in Southern China, however some were also produced in North-Vietnam due to the exile of the black flag army there. I also read that some were even made in the US by Chinese immigrants!

Ian · Yesterday, 02:23 AM

Hi Yvain,

This is a common pattern for a southern Chinese knife. It is not surprising that it also occurred in Vietnam. Certainly, these knives entered the U.S. with Chinese immigrants and may have been made there also.

The brass work on the hilt is a little unusual and fancier than most examples. It does not seem to have been used much and does not strike me as being very old. Perhaps this was obtained in Hanoi by a French person during the colonial period, in which case it could be as recent as mid-20th C.

Ren Ren · Today, 09:47 PM

This type of knife is associated with the Zhuang people on the Chinese Internet. The Nong people of Vietnam are known for their blacksmithing skills. In China, the Nong are considered an ethnic group within the Zhuang people. During the Sino-French War of 1884-85, the Nong/Zhuang actively fought on the side of Chinese proxies - the Black Flags and others, and after the war they were involved in cross-border crime, racketeering, robbery, kidnapping and trafficking in women.
At auctions, these knives are often labeled as "river pirate knives", but this is only partly true. In fact, the French called all organized gangs of criminals in Northern Vietnam "pirates".
In their shape and design, Nong/Zhuang knives are similar to the knives of the Chinese from the southern coastal provinces of Guangdong, Fujian, Zhejiang. They are distinguished by a rough finish and a common ornament in the form of circles with a dot in the center. Also, their handles are often made of horn, while Chinese handles were more often made of wood.

4th October 2024, 03:35 PM	#1
Yvain Member Join Date: May 2017 Location: France Posts: 178	Sino-vietnamese fighting knife Hi all! Snatched this sino-vietnamese fighting knife for 10€ at the flea market this weekend! I'm pretty happy it, since I didn't have one of those in my collection yet, and especially for that price! It's a long, heavy knife, with a very thick spine and slightly concave sides. Polish is pretty rough, don't know if it was always that way though. The grip is made of bone, with brass pommel and guard. I read that those were used by the black flag army, which would make sense since I found it in France (the black flag army fought the French during the sino-french war 1884-1885). Anyway, would love to hear your thoughts about it! 🙂 Attached Images

5th October 2024, 03:56 AM	#3
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 479	Chinese & Vietnamese? Hi All, I Have seen pictures of these in old US publications that identified them as one of the knives used by Chinese tongs. I had always thought of them as purely Chinese. It will be interesting to hear what more knowledgeable forum members have to say. Sincerely, RobT

4th October 2024, 11:47 PM	#2
David R Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,072	Nice one!

5th October 2024, 10:23 AM	#4
Yvain Member Join Date: May 2017 Location: France Posts: 178	Hi Rob, From what I've read, this type of knife originated in Southern China, however some were also produced in North-Vietnam due to the exile of the black flag army there. I also read that some were even made in the US by Chinese immigrants!

Yesterday, 02:23 AM	#5
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,179	Hi Yvain, This is a common pattern for a southern Chinese knife. It is not surprising that it also occurred in Vietnam. Certainly, these knives entered the U.S. with Chinese immigrants and may have been made there also. The brass work on the hilt is a little unusual and fancier than most examples. It does not seem to have been used much and does not strike me as being very old. Perhaps this was obtained in Hanoi by a French person during the colonial period, in which case it could be as recent as mid-20th C.

Today, 09:47 PM	#6
Ren Ren Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Russia, Moscow Posts: 370	This type of knife is associated with the Zhuang people on the Chinese Internet. The Nong people of Vietnam are known for their blacksmithing skills. In China, the Nong are considered an ethnic group within the Zhuang people. During the Sino-French War of 1884-85, the Nong/Zhuang actively fought on the side of Chinese proxies - the Black Flags and others, and after the war they were involved in cross-border crime, racketeering, robbery, kidnapping and trafficking in women. At auctions, these knives are often labeled as "river pirate knives", but this is only partly true. In fact, the French called all organized gangs of criminals in Northern Vietnam "pirates". In their shape and design, Nong/Zhuang knives are similar to the knives of the Chinese from the southern coastal provinces of Guangdong, Fujian, Zhejiang. They are distinguished by a rough finish and a common ornament in the form of circles with a dot in the center. Also, their handles are often made of horn, while Chinese handles were more often made of wood.